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hi there everybody.this is convergence training we're here.for the webinar we see a lot of you are.logged in we're gonna give just another.minute before we get started so that.people can struggle in so we'll be right.with you.thanks for coming in.alright and with that let's get started.so hello to everybody out there and.welcome thanks for attending this.webinar and we're going to be talking.about the MSHA part 46 training.regulations so let's get started with.that first a couple of introductions and.I'm gonna ask my partner here my.presenting partner Bjorn and SPRO to.introduce himself first yarn yes good.morning everybody my name is Bjorn I am.the marketing manager here at.convergence training and probably the.main reason that I'm here helping.present is part of my background at.convergence along with Jeff was.originally in 2008 producing the the set.of training that was our first MSHA part.46 specific course set last year I spent.quite a bit of time rewriting and.updating all of that and so I have a.fair amount of experience with MCA part.46 with contact with MSHA personnel.people in the field and a lot of surface.miner operators and mining contractors.who use the quote use the courses have.lots of questions and so everything that.we're going to talk about is really.based on our experience with key.questions from those those people who.are required to comply with that.regulation so that's why I'm here.Jeff back to you all right thanks Bjorn.my name is Jeff Delta I'm the senior.learning and development specialists at.convergence by trade I'm an.instructional designer although I have a.safety background of 10 years or more.something you might recognize me because.I write the convergence training blog.you may if you're a member of the.American Society of safety engineers you.may recognize me I read a kind of.recurrent safety training column for.their professional safety magazine I'm.also on the subcommittee with asse and.ANSI to create an upcoming national.standard on virtual safety training.that's called Z.or 90.2 so that's who we are.and both Bjorn and I as Buuren mentioned.are with a company called convergence.training convergence training is a.training provider we also we have a.specialty in safety training we also.have a specialty in mining safety.training would make learning management.systems to help you administer your.training an incident management system.for incident investigations we have.compatible mobile apps for all of that.we make elearning or online courses for.a lot of topics including general safety.and compliance OSHA and that kind of.stuff but also MSHA safety training and.we do make custom training as well so.feel free if you have questions about.that - check out our website at.convergence training comm or shoot off.an email to the email address here.presenter at conversion training comm.we'll get back to you on that.Bjorn and I both worked on the creation.of our em sock em saw safety training.solutions that was released back in 2008.and those training solutions won first.prize at 2008 MSHA tram award so that.was nice and those kind of awards have.continued just this year our MSHA safety.training solutions won two awards first.we won the is HN Readers Choice Award.for best safety training with our I'm.sure safety training solutions and we.follow that up at the asse safety 2017.conference by winning their attendee.Choice Awards for best safety training.so we're proud of that and again we.encourage you to check that out one last.note I will be presenting at the.upcoming MSHA tram conference in October.out in West Virginia I'll be giving two.presentations one on current and future.training technology for the mining.industry and a second on evaluating.online safety training solutions so if.you're an MSHA stop by say hi.check out the conferences if you're.interested if you're not going to be a.tram shoot off an email to the email.address here presenter at convergence of.training comm and I can get you the.materials.our points on that we'll use at that.conference all right a couple.housekeeping things and I'll hand it.over to Bjorn first we have a lot to.cover so feel free to put in questions.using typing them in with the webinar.software tool and at any time but we're.gonna address those at the end there'll.be a few polls along the way so well let.you know and ask you to respond to a few.poll questions that will give us a.little better idea of who you are and.what kind of help you're looking for.safety training but also we can all.learn from one another also the after.the webinar is over when Bjorn and I say.goodbye.on your screen you'll see a brief post.webinar survey it should take 1 or 2.minutes to fill out I think 5 questions.if you could fill that out we'd really.appreciate it we learn a lot from that a.day or two from today you'll receive.from us a follow-up email with a.recorded version of this webinar with.the PowerPoint that we're using right.now and a whole bunch of related.resources also if you look in the.webinar tool itself.there should be a handout tab and we.have a free handout there for you you.can download now or at any time on em.shock online them shop appliance and.then lastly just a quick head up we.probably will be talking about 30.minutes today then we'll go into that.Q&A session we talked about and that'll.just kind of help you anticipate what's.coming next.and with that I'm going to hand it over.to Bjorn it's good to tell you all about.em shop r46.Thank You Geoff thank you again everyone.for coming and just to give you a little.bit of a heads up about the things that.we plan to cover we will cover MSHA part.46 and we picked out just a few key.important things so the important stuff.the key players that MSHA specifically.calls out in the regulations those roles.of people that are required a long way.the main types of training that people.focus on from a regulatory standpoint.compliant methods of training and.evaluation and then the types of.compliant documents there are two key.documents that will go into.some of the things that we're not going.to cover our part 48 in detail we'll.just mention it you know as far as it's.different from 46 site-specific training.that is that's a really basic piece of.part 46 we're not really going to cover.in detail other training for non mining.employees new task training requirements.newly hired experienced training.requirements but again we have a lot of.experience with an understanding of.these types of roles and these other.types of training so if you have.questions along the way like Jeff said.feel free to email them to us.feel free to follow up afterwards we.will be happy to connect with you and.really really do want to make sure.everybody gets their questions answered.again but this presentation is really.focused on kind of that roll up of key.stuff the common questions that people.ask one of the things you're going to.see is well something I I don't like to.do in presentations too much has put a.bunch of text on the screen but in this.case because so much of its regulatory.I've got quotes directly from two key.documents one is title 30 part 46 that.is the MSHA surface miner regulation and.you're gonna see some quotes and I'll.read some of those just so it's clear.that that information is coming directly.from em sha and the other the other is a.is a document that M should put out.basically interpreting that regulation.that set of regulations so they go into.great detail to interpret what the.regulation actually says both of those.we provide as links at the end any other.resources you need let us know again.through the questions or afterwards and.we'll get everybody taken care of so.MSHA part 46 the important stuff the.main thing is what is it.so in title 30 Code of Federal.Regulations part 46.1 MSHA defines the.scope of the regulation as covering.training and Retraining of miners.engaged in shale dredging or employed at.gravel surface stone surface clay.colloidal phosphate or surface limestone.mines so what does that mean that means.surface mines not underground mines and.very specifically and this is one of the.questions that we get quite a bit it is.non metal non coal.so clearly there are plenty of surface.only mines that mind things like bauxite.for aluminum and other minerals that are.specifically related to metal if they.are it is not part 46 it's 48 if it's a.surface strip coal mine anything to do.with coal it's not part 46 so once again.part 48 a and B we get questions people.say hey you know I'm just going to the.surface area of an underground mine so I.should be fine with part 46 that's not.the case part 48 B is specifically for.surface areas of underground mines so if.it is metal coal once again it's 48 if.it's just the surface area of an.underground mine still part 48 and.obviously if it's underground is 48 so.this leads us to our first poll so we're.gonna shoot this out there and you.should see it come up on your screen and.we'll take a moment to give everybody a.chance to answer we'll keep an eye on.how many people are answering and and.should be less than a minute or so.almost 90% will give everybody a few.more seconds.I feel like we should have some music or.something to help help out with the dead.space but that's how webinars go all.right we're gonna close that poll looks.like a lot of people are just brushing.up which is totally fine this event.makes a lot of sense and again you may.have more detailed questions than what.we're going over here but we're happy to.help down the road or after the webinar.here on Webster what was the ratio of.respondents on that one so it looks like.we were at 78% said that no they're just.brushing up on the details and 22% said.yeah never had to comply with it before.great thanks so what we often see in.those ratios and that's why we ask the.question is a lot of times its mining.contractors who are surprised Oh guess.what.we have to do MSHA training we've gotten.no experience with this so my my bet is.that most of those 22% who said never.had to comply with it before are likely.mining contractors and again we're happy.to help with any questions that come up.specifically about that as we close this.out and then afterwards so now we're.going to focus on key players the key.players are three of them there are.three that show up in whether it's you.know for whatever training role we've.got the responsible person the competent.person and the miner.and that also includes the mining.contractor and MSHA from a training.standpoint and regulatory standpoint.sees no difference between a miner and a.mining contractor it's a very common.question that we get but I'm just a.contractor don't I have to do less.training or you know is there some.lighter version of all of this stuff the.answer is unfortunately no MSHA sees.miners mining contractors exactly the.same and requires the same things from.them the responsible person.MSHA MSHA defines as designated by.excuse me Disney designated in the end.approved training plan will go over the.training plan a little bit for the mine.as responsible for health and safety.training in this States I certify that.the above training has been completed so.that responsible person is in quote.unquote responsible for the health and.safety and has to effectively certify on.the documents that the training has been.completed the competent person is.designated by the production operator or.independent contractor who has the.ability training knowledge or experience.to provide the training to minors in his.or her area of expertise the competent.person must be able both to effectively.communicate the training subject to.minors and to evaluate whether the.training given to minors is effective.we're going to the confident persons.role a little bit more as we move.forward but one of the key things that.that comes up time and again is about.the competent person that is not.designated by MSHA it's designated by.the production operator or the.independent contractor and that's.entirely your call so it does not for.part 46 need to be an MSHA approved.trainer MSHA puts that designation and.that choice into your hands to determine.who's competent to cover those subjects.the minor is any person including any.operator or supervisor who works at the.mine and it was engaged in mining.operations now this also includes and.I'm just specifically states this.definition includes independent.contractors and employees of any men.independent contractors who are engaged.in mining operations and any.construction worker who's exposed to.hazards of mining operations and what.we've tried to do as well is offer the.specific reference in the lower-right so.that you can look these things up.yourself but again if you're familiar.with all of this then been you know.where to find those things that brings.us to our second poll we're moving right.along I'm going to launch that right now.you should see that on your screen.okay we're looking at about 80 percent.shooting of 90 percent or so and.completed the poll and we're about split.33 percent are minors 33 percent mining.contractors shooting 37% and 30 percent.other so very very interesting give you.another couple seconds here see if we.can get one more couple more.participants to take part alright we'll.close that out and we'll move on to the.main types of training main types of.training our new miner and once again.the miner and the mining contractor have.equivalent requirements and annual.refresher once again we know that there.are other types of training associated.with membership r46 but for practical.purposes what most mine operators mining.contractors focus on is new miner and.annual refresher now someone's going to.say Oh what about newly hired.experienced miners what we find so so.often is that regardless of a new.employees experience a lot of mine.companies in particular will hire and.train as if they're new miners and that.just gives them the maximum amount of.training they don't have to change up.their training program and again we'll.touch on the timing and everything.related to new miner and annual.refresher in just a moment so once again.the definition of a new minor is.beginning employment as a miner with a.production operator or independent.contractor who is not an experienced.miner MSHA specifically outlines an.experienced miner has completed 24 hours.of new miner training and at least 12.cumulative months of surface miner.experience now the timing of new miner.very specifically laid out that seven.clearly defined subjects need to be.covered at a minimum of four hours.prior to a minor beginning work now.those subjects include and they are laid.out in the part 46 regulation.introduction to the mine hazard.recognition and avoidance and we've put.our spin on some of these titles but.this is the the gist of what MSHA.requires emergency medical procedures.health and safety aspects of tasks the.rights of minors the line of authority.typically out of mine and reporting.hazards now MSHA says after the start of.work within sixty days.respiratory device training and.first-aid training must take place as.appropriate and then within 90 days all.remaining of the 24 hour minimum must be.completed now once again most companies.that we've worked with tend to take all.of that 24 hours split it up into three.eight-hour days and get it done prior to.the beginning of work annual refresher.training MSHA specifically says no less.than eight hours of annual refresher.training must be provided no later than.twelve months after a miner begins work.at the mine once again both miner and.mining contractors any mine contractor.who is interested in keeping up to date.with their MSHA compliant training.continuing work at client mines annual.refresher is a requirement what does.that timing look like well after the.start of work within no later than.twelve months.what MSHA lays out is a number of.suggested and recommended training.topics but the one that's actually.required is changes at the mine so.there's no minimum requirement.specifically for covering that changes.at the mine it can be thirty minutes an.hour three hours you could spend the.entire time if you wanted to but let's.say you spend two hours covering changes.at the mine which could be the.redirecting of haul roads the changing.of an active mine area in a pit if.you're a mining contractor it could be.adding.new sprinkler system for your fire.extinguishing system it could be a newly.updated emergency preparedness or.evacuation plan at your office or at.your facility so very broad range of.things that can be covered at the quote.unquote changes at the mine but that has.to be covered and any remaining can be.anyone remaining training of that.minimum eight hours can be pretty much.anything that MSHA either suggests or.recommends or it could be filled in with.your own training as long as you.identify that in the training plan and.we're going to cover that in just a.moment so our third pole racing quiet.right along we're going to launch that.right now so if everybody takes a moment.and I'll keep you updated on where we.are with that in just a second.looks like we're at about 65% of people.responding and so far so far 15% are.focused on new minor 30% annual.refresher and then 55% both which again.is not uncommon.a couple more seconds here to give.everybody an opportunity to respond all.right we're gonna close that out and.race right along those percentages are.about the same all right thanks.everybody.moving along we're gonna cover some.compliant methods of training and.evaluation and this comes up quite a bit.everyone may be aware that convergence.does produce computer-based training.software elearning things like that and.the use of that computer-based training.from a regulatory standpoint comes up as.a question quite a bit so we'll cover.what MSHA demes methods of training and.evaluation that are okay in their eyes.that are compliant as usual classroom.training other in-person training very.very common a lot of you may either be.trainers or people who have taken.training not uncommon at all for a for.there to be a training room at your.facility observed in the field this can.be on the job very straightforward as.long as it's outlined in the training.plan that this type of training method.is going to be used.totally fine computer-based training of.course MSHA specifically says that they.consider computer-based training or.other interactive training technologies.to be training methods to be used by a.competent person effectively and.appropriately this would not necessarily.require that the competent person be in.the room at all times.however the competent person must be.available to evaluate the trainees.progress and to answer questions as they.arise again this is from Emma's own.interpretation document so one of the.things that that comes up again as a.question and is very specifically laid.out here is we'll have customers now and.then who purchased the online training.take it and say okay where's my 5,000 23.where's my record of training I thought.you guys were going to.send it to me signed that does not.happen this way and I'm sure.specifically defines computer-based.training to be used as a method and puts.the control of all of that documentation.and delivery and oversight in the hands.of the competent person and the.responsible person so when you take a.computer-based training whether it's.from us or anybody else it is considered.a training method just like your.competent person would have told you to.go study a book it is a method so as.long as that's laid out again in the.training plan used as a method and then.all the documentation is then.administered signed and controlled by.your organization that's how AM sha has.designed the training it's not just us.or or anybody else saying no we're not.we're not going to sign it's not.designed for us to do that as the.provider of a training method hope.that's clear if you have any questions.again we can help clarify that so once.again training evaluation is any method.that you know MSHA offers the mine and.the mining contractor to select a method.that will best determine if the training.has been effective possible evaluation.methods include administering written or.oral tests or demonstration by the miner.that he or she can perform all required.duties or tasks in a safe and healthful.manner.in addition periodic work observations.can be used to identify areas where.additional training may be needed and.such observations along with feedback.from the miners could be used to modify.or enhance the training program now once.again this this piece really highlights.that MSHA offers a very broad latitude.for the methods of training the real key.as far as as far as methods is that they.should be written out in the training.plan before the training is done so.again we'll cover where that falls in.the document in just a moment brings us.to our fourth poll and again thanks for.everybody participating so nicely we.really appreciate the feedback.we're to launch that right now so you.should see that come up and we'll look.forward to everyone's feedback.we're at about seventy five percent of.respondents and it looks like sixty.percent have used classroom fifty-two.percent computer-based thirty-six.percent in the field and twenty percent.say they've had some other experience.with other types of training so we'll.offer about ten more seconds here.alright we'll close that up and we'll.move on to the types of compliant.documents there are two main documents.the training plan which again has to be.written when MSHA wants to review your.documents they're not interested in.going to a computer if somebody shows up.an MSHA inspector they want to see.things printed out so when I'm talking.about any of these documents they're all.going to be printed out filed and then.I'll go into a little bit more detail.about each so the training plan is one.that's before you do the training and.then the record or certificate of.training so we look at this as kind of.at that document sandwich the training.plan to begin with the record of.training at the end and then the.training that happens in the middle the.training plan is typically going to be.multiple pages you know with a lot of.information on it it's you'll see that.this one is specifically focused on new.minor there will be the expectation is.that there's a training plan for each of.the different training types.now that training plan has to clearly.state an estimated our estimated amount.of hours of training now.MSHA does not say it has to be in a.specific increment but they provide a.lot of leeway so you'll see here our.example could be anything from half an.hour to an hour and a half two hours to.six hours it really is an estimate can.be just about anything the subject.matter as defined by MSHA and any.additional topics that that you want to.include the objectives of the training.teaching methods as we talked about a.little bit the course material this is.how those teaching methods will be.implemented the evaluation methods that.we talked about again and then every.training plan has to have a cover what.you're looking at on the screen right.now is our template that we provide and.that template is built based on emza.documents so everything that we provide.is compliant to MSHA specifications the.types of Records or certificates you may.all be familiar with the five thousand.twenty three this is the document.provided by MSHA and just just so you.know it's going to be a little bit.different from another mg of compliant.training record and what's interesting.about the five thousand twenty three is.it was it was originally designed for.part forty eight so while it is often.used and certainly acceptable by M so.for part 46 it is slightly different.than even the regulations that MSHA.outlines the five key topics that are.required for MSHA's compliant document.for part forty.excuse me part 46 so we'll go through.those in detail in just a second.and so again the two records are the.five thousand twenty three in the MSHA.compliant document and again we'll go.through the details on what the.difference is really on the five.thousand twenty three needs to have the.training name and again you're going to.see those individual key players show up.again the initials of the competent.person with the date in the task the.name of the my namja ID location and.then two things that are associated with.the responsible person there's a.statement where they are clearly saying.hey I understand the ramifications of.creating a false certification I'm.certifying that all of this is true and.again that's the responsible person.signing so the question again just to.reinforce that is that it's not the.trainer in.in this case it's the responsible person.it's not the competent person the.responsible person now MSHA in part 46.specifically lays out what is acceptable.or what they refer to as if a document.has these elements it is deemed.compliant by MSHA it does not have to be.submitted to MSHA it doesn't have to be.you know seen by an inspector or.approved by MSHA at all it is it can be.set up by you it can you know be set up.by us these are documents that we create.as templates and provide to you know and.have provided to thousands of customers.who use this to comply and to present to.mmm so this document has to have again.the training name the name of the.competent person and this is not just.our version that's different these are.the specific requirements outlined in am.show part 46 the name of the competent.person with the training time duration.and date the name of the MSHA ID is.going to be the name of the mine MSHA ID.in the location and then once again.those two pieces of of two items.associated with the responsible person.that understanding of the false.certification and then their signature.so we're down to our last poll thank you.again for everybody sticking with us.we're going to launch that right now and.you should see that come up on your.screen.you're getting quite a bit faster how.many responses we're at about 80% now.and the question about were you aware.that you can create your own compliant.looks like most of you were about 70.percent say yes you were aware of that.32 percent sent said no at the moment so.we'll give everybody a few more seconds.we're at about 83 percent of respondents.all right we'll close that out and just.a review of some of the things that.we've hoped that you've learned we.covered MSHA what we think are the.really important things that port an.important distinction between MSHA part.46 and 48 the three key players that.come up time and again in the regulation.those two main types of training that.again for practical purposes that's what.most people focus on in in the field the.compliant methods of training and.evaluation and the types of compliant.documents the documentation is one that.just comes up time and time again and.please again do not hesitate to ask us.detailed questions about about the.documentation anything we have covered.or haven't covered and at this point I'm.going to say thank you once again and.I'm going to hand everything back over.to Jeff and he'll wrap things up all.right thank you very much yarn just a.few resources for you all before we get.into the Q&A session and then into our.little survey at the end we mentioned.you in a day or two you'll get an email.from us.it will include this PowerPoint and you.can go into this PowerPoint and Bjorn.has wrangled up some helpful links for.you here to MSHA websites at similar.places where you can find information in.addition we talked about new minor and.annual refresher training and mentioned.we're not going to talk about a whole.bunch of other stuff but we don't want.to leave you high and dry on that so.again in this PowerPoint you see we have.links to a whole bunch of articles at.the commercial trading blog.on a lot of that other stuff we didn't.talk about including even free training.materials you can use so I'll keep your.eyes out for that a reminder again I'll.be speaking at the upcoming MSHA tram.conference and really just a reminder of.the Koppers in general if you haven't.been there it's a really helpful.conference it's free once you're there.it's October 10 to 12 in Beaver West.Virginia I'll be talking on two.different topics the first is kind of.current in future training technologies.for the mining and mining safety.industries and a second will be Hobbit.evaluate an online safety training.solution and I'll be looking at courses.management systems and providers so if.you're there great come on by otherwise.shoot us an email and I can get you.these materials the presentation.materials and we're going to start by.taking questions at this point and.beyond we did have one roll man you've.addressed it a little bit already but I.want to go back to it and this will give.people with an opportunity to type in.any more questions Blair said here's his.initial question a state Montana safety.inspector has commented to us that.online safety training will not be.accepted is that true so I know you.addressed and and if you could answer.initially the answer from MSHA and then.we can hopefully tease out Blair's talk.about a state safety inspector so I.don't know if that's among those I'm.sure or not but but if you could answer.for MSHA first that'd be great well.thank you Jeff and Thank You Blair for.the question my understanding is that.even on a state level the MSHA personnel.are still federal employees and adhere.to the federal standards now there may.be other state overriding regulations as.far as you know what the state will.accept in certain areas but this is this.is something that that as far as I.understand that even on a state level.that's still a federal regulation that.MSHA itself.again that doesn't necessarily operate.on a state level even though there are.there are people stationed at the state.level that computer-based training is.very very specifically allowed at excuse.me via MJ so one of the things that that.is a caveat as far as the documentation.of anything that you do and this is more.specific to contractors is that in the.end it's it's not it's not even the.federal or the state that that has the.final say it really is the mine the mine.operator can set their own standards as.long as they are at or above the MSHA.standards for what they will accept or.how they use or apply the training so.they could say at a mine level hey you.know we have specific requirements for.documentation or training and and that's.why one of the things that we really.encourage for mining contractors is that.if you know you're going to be working.at a mine certainly go through the.regulation make sure you understand that.you're welcome to talk to us we'll do.our very best to answer your questions.at any time but develop a relationship.with the line so that no matter what you.don't end up at the gate with a document.or with an amount of training that they.may not accept so develop your.relationship with mine find out what.they will accept and and go from there.but again my understanding is that that.state inspector again you know I ended.up on the phone with a number of MSHA.personnel and clients and gone through.these types of things that it does not.sound accurate that computer-based.training would not be accepted and.beyond what you just said there and what.you referred to a document from MSHA and.and in this PowerPoint will get this.PowerPoint to Blair and everybody else.and and Blair could direct that.inspector to the MSHA statement but what.you just said is completely in line with.conversations I've had with the director.of education and training at MSHA Jeff.Duncan.which is again one of the related.resources in this in this PowerPoint as.well we do have a second question here.can the mine site Safety Manager be both.the responsible and the competent person.on a five thousand twenty three the.short answer is yes and that that.question comes up actually more often.with mining contractors for example MSHA.understands that there are vastly.different sizes of companies vastly.different sizes of organizations all the.way from even even a good sized mine.outfit may be relatively lightly staff.or let's say twenty twenty people.on-site those responsible person the.competent person can be the same person.absolutely and MSHA again with regard to.contractors they understand that you.know I've I've had personal contact with.a number of contractors who are sole.proprietors so they have a welding.company an electrical contractor company.and it's just one person MSHA allows for.the responsible person the competent.person and the trainee that miner to be.all the same person and I know it sounds.counterintuitive but MSHA allows for an.individual to oversee their own training.and sign off on their own training.because in the end when MSHA says let's.see those documents and you say hey here.they are I've got them printed out I'm a.sole proprietor that responsibility is.entirely up to you so MSHA knows that.they're aware that there are one-man.shows out there and that they allow for.those things to be for those roles to.roll up as one person alright great yarn.thank you so that question was from.Monty and Monty has a second question as.well and I just want Monty to know let.us know if we didn't answer the question.also Jim we see your question we'll be.with you shortly to my knees second.question and one I can't remember the.answer to your on of it you know how.many years can an experienced miner go.by without.working before he or she is required to.start over with a new set of 24-hour.training that has come up unfortunately.I don't have an answer I can't recall.that there is a specific that MSHA.addresses that in part 46 they may.address something along those lines in.their interpretation document but I.definitely would have to do some digging.there again not the first time that's.come up but it's not a super common.question what I can tell you is that in.most cases let's say you're an.experienced miner you haven't worked as.a miner for three or four years or so.the likelihood and this is from our.experience with mining operators is that.when you get hired they're just going to.give you the 24 hour training as a new.minor so it's that's one of those areas.that typically falls back to the.discretion of the mine operator or.mining contractor but in this case.mostly the mine operators deal with you.know newly hired experienced miners so.again what the regulation is I'll be.happy to do some follow-up and and and.see if I can find anything specific some.specific verbage but the practical.answer is that you're probably going to.end up hired and trained as a new miner.with a minimum of 24 hours all right.thanks Baron Somani we'll get back to.you for everybody in addition and we're.happy you're asking us questions but but.feel free to contact the MSHA district.office for questions like that twos and.you're getting the answer straight from.the horse's mouth next question by Jim.and Lori just let you know we see out.there as well Jim's question is you see.if I have this right.okay a contractor comes to a mine they.have completed a web-based course they.need to have proof of new miner training.record is it the contractors.responsibility on their training plan or.is the company's training plan.requirements.I would I would if I had the opportunity.to speak with Jim directly I'd say let's.let's clarify the company I'm assuming.that it's the when you say is it the is.that the contractors responsibility on.the training plan or the company's.training plan requirements I'm Jeff do.you understand exactly what what what.he's asking there I'm not a hundred.percent sure Jim so that sir if the.go-ahead responded back and he said.correct.Jim Jim can we could we ask you just to.restate the question one more time just.type it in and we'll go to Laurie and.then what will cycle back to Jim and and.and hopefully we can hammer this out on.on the webinar but if not we can touch.base with Jim as well I I can do.something real quick.I'll answer what I what I think and then.get Laurie and then if Jim needs.clarification happy to happy to do it.um one once again the tricky area about.contractors doing training at all and.then showing up let's say sight unseen.at a mine operation is that it that.discretion to allow entry on to the mine.with the exception of of law enforcement.or MSHA inspection that is entirely up.to the mine so a mine operator could.deny entry to a contractor virtually for.any reason that they deem you know.suitable to them so it could be.documentation and could be you know it.could be just about anything that's why.we encourage contractors to develop.those relationships get a heads-up from.the people you know from the authority.at the mine so that no one's held up at.the gate and and that's you know that.encouragement has really paid off in a.lot of ways because we get feedback like.oh I'm so glad that we did that because.now we know exactly not just what's.covered by you know what's required by.MSHA but what is required by that.particular mine and what they want to.see when we show up so everybody's good.but ultimately the the signing of that.new miner training record if you're a.you're a mining contractor that record.has to be signed by the responsible.person at your company now in some cases.we fent we've had lots of contractors.say well the the mine operation allowed.us to come and sit in on their training.so they actually trained us that's great.that person responsible for the health.and safety of the workers for your.company is likely still an employee of.your company.now the competent person overseeing the.training could be an employee it could.be somebody that you've hired and it.could be somebody at that mine if you're.a contractor and going to take the.training at the mine but the responsible.person who signs the trainee is going to.be typically that person at your.organization who is responsible for your.health and safety and there's a lot of.confusion and I promise you lots of.companies have the trainer sign the.document and MSHA probably signs off on.that okay that's fine but nowhere in the.regulation does it say that's okay even.though that's probably done quite a bit.but it is again in both the 5,000 23 the.the MSHA compliant document again the.one that we provide as well that.signature has to be the responsible.person and it's defined at at your.organization so hopefully that helps I.got one clarification from Jim I'll read.his clarification and you know get it.get it right or what we'll get so he.clarified here's what he wrote.MSHA is on site they asked to see the.records and then I think this is.supposed to be a question the contractor.is responsible or company they are.working for is responsible so who's.responsible according to the different.training plans you know I and I'm.holding my breath is that's that's a.really good question I we haven't had.that exact question yet as far as just.like you're saying that's an area where.m sure so it shows up.and let's say you've got a dozen and.mine employees on the site and three.mining contractors and MSHA says let's.see everybody's papers my logic would be.that just like the mining contractor.would have shown the mine operator and.Pharaon records those records are not.shared you know.documents by the mining operator and the.mine contractor ultimately the ownership.of those documents will reside within.those organizations so my assumption.again this is this is relatively.educated assumption without knowing for.sure and there's one caveat I'll throw.in is that the contractor has to have.their own documents and the mine.employees have to have their own.documents now the one caveat is that we.have heard time and time again that MSHA.inspectors may have their own.interpretations of some of this stuff.and it becomes you know if there is a.documented violation of some sort we've.had many mine operators who come back.and say we've had to contest and go back.to the you know the regulations and.contest the violation that we recited.with so that's the one caveat is that I.can say okay based on my understanding.of how MSHA lays out the regulation and.the ownership and responsibility of the.documents and how I think that should.happen in that scenario every inspector.is different and that's what we hear.time again time and again so my.suggestion would be just to make sure.that if you're a mining contractor.absolutely make sure that that everybody.is armed with their documents while.they're on a site performing work and.then you've got you've got something to.refer back to you and that sounds like a.good answer um Jim hopefully that.answers your question if not let us know.we'll get touchbase to you offline and.we'll move forward and feel free to.contact.as you're mentioned that MSHA district.office is a great resource Lori's got a.question here does it matter if a miners.eight hours of training is all in the.same topic example health and safety etc.and Jim say thanks I was like we answer.the question.okay great and and Jim just a roll back.real quick back to Jim I'm I'm not.exaggerating in the slightest that when.I have gotten on the phone with an a.conference call with an MSHA inspector.or representative and with a customer.client is using our our training whether.it's a training issue documentation or.any other question and and we've all sat.together and worked through and and.developed a shared understanding of.things so ultimately if it gets to.something like that just know that.that's the extent to which will go to.help and make sure that everybody ends.up with the same you know with a shared.understanding and with accurate.information at the end of the day so.Laurie yeah to go to matter okay I'm.sorry.yeah yeah yeah absolutely doesn't matter.if it's all on the same topic so I'm.gonna assume the eight hours is the.eight-hour annual refresher because.that's the only you know eight hour.that's designated eight-hour training.this designated by MSHA and it's it's.fine if if if that topic is specifically.related to changes at the mind and if.that's in the training plan if you say.we're going to cover you know eight.hours on changes at the mine and again.changes at the mine in M Joe's.vernacular related to contractors is.also changes at the contractors location.at the contractors offices the.contractors warehouse and I know that.sounds a little bit odd but that's.that's how I'm sure interprets that as.long as it's about that one required.topic for the eight-hour annual.refresher which is changes at the mine.conceivably that would be okay but if.you provide let's say eight hours of you.know first-aid training CPR.covering you know AED you know you've.got some you know automatic external.defibrillators if it's just that and you.haven't stated on the training plan that.those things are associated with changes.at the mine and on the record of.training that that it's not clear that.those things are associated with changes.at the mind for example if your.organization just just implemented a new.first aid program with new first aid.equipment including new AEDs at specific.placements around the site that's.something that you could clearly say.that's a change within the past twelve.months that affects the health and.safety of everybody on site we're going.to train on that and that counts for our.eight-hour refresher training that's.totally totally within bounds but it.can't be just health and safety topics.if you're not aligning that with the one.required topic again which is changes at.the mind if it's a new program new.equipment or things like that.that's health and safety related as long.as you align them you're good.alright and that Laurie let us know if.that answered your question or if you.still have other questions looks like.Jim is good anybody else has a question.Laurie saying great and thumbs up thank.you thank you Laurie yep we'll take a.minute here see if there's any other.questions and Your Honor I think I think.we're good.so if anybody has if a question comes to.you in the next couple minutes or next.couple days you've got our email we're.happy to take those as well and you're.on why don't we go ahead and move.forward here sounds good alright.everybody thank you so much we're going.to close this out we really appreciate.your time and the the great feedback and.questions and hopefully you realize this.isn't you know an end to our presence.here as a training provider.you know as someone who operates in the.MSHA and mining and contractor industry.we deal with this all the time and we.work with mining contractors and mines.to help them get the right information.really daily so please feel free to.continue the relationship get back to us.with any questions or help that you need.and and we'll be happy to to do.everything we can and and just a few.ways to do that and we have this.presenter at convergence training comm.email in the bottom corner feel free to.ping us anytime you're welcome to check.out our website conversion training comm.you can also check out our blog while.there there are various ways to contact.us there as well and Bjorn is there a.reminder about the MSHA Schramm.conference next year there isn't that.was a couple of slides ago but you feel.free to just throw that in there as well.that's good so hopefully we'll see you a.tram otherwise thank you very much for.coming in and see you again soon yep and.from convergence stay safe thanks so.much everybody.all right have a great day.

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New Miner Training Recordcertificate Msha Msha FAQs

Some of the confused FAQs related to the New Miner Training Recordcertificate Msha Msha are:

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How do I fill out the SS-4 form for a new Delaware C-Corp to get an EIN?

You indicate this is a Delaware C Corp so check corporation and you will file Form 1120. Check that you are starting a new corporation. Date business started is the date you actually started the business. Typically you would look on the paperwork from Delaware and put the date of incorporation. December is the standard closing month for most corporations. Unless you have a significant business reason to pick a different month use Dec. If you plan to pay yourself wages put one. If you don't know put zero. Unless you are fairly sure you will owe payroll taxes the first year check that you will not have payroll or check that your liability will be less than $1,000. Anything else and the IRS will expect you to file quarterly payroll tax returns. Indicate the type of SaaS services you will offer.

How long is MSHA training?

This chart (Copyright MSHAU.com) may help illustrate how to determine which MSHA regulations (Part 46 or Part 48) cover what type of mining based on: Mine Location - Surface or Underground Mine Commodity - Coal, Metal, Non-Metal, Gemstones

What's the difference between OSHA and MSHA?

MSHA is the Mine Safety and Health Agency that has much more authority and financing than does OSHA (at least that is my understanding). They have a separate set of federal regulations from OSHA (which stands for Occupational Safety and Health agency) I have had only superficial contact with MSHA because they will regulate any business that has even part of its business underground. All of the MSHA facilities that i have encountered as a loss control rep with insurance companies required folks to go through eight hours of safety training before you could enter the facility with the proper PPE o Continue Reading

How do I get MSHA?

It might depend on what type of experience you have. Some health care systems want managerial experience before hiring someone as an administrator, and others might want you to have some knowledge of their particular EMR (Epic, for example).

How long is MSHA 48 training good for?

This chart (Copyright MSHAU.com) may help illustrate how to determine which MSHA regulations (Part 46 or Part 48) cover what type of mining based on: Mine Location - Surface or Underground Mine Commodity - Coal, Metal, Non-Metal, Gemstones

What does MSHA stand for?

In the context of abbreviations people can use letters to write short terms of statements or names of organizations or any other information, basically MSHA may stand for Mine Safety and Healthy Administration but it could not be international recognized

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