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Hand-in-Hand Teaching Guide to write Subcontractor Warranty Form

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How to leverage The Subcontractor Warranty Form ?

hello everybody welcome to this month's.that's why in practice community so with.that I do want to hand it off to our.co-chairs David Stutzman and Lewis.Metcalf to get started today's session I.said David Lewis over to you.thanks Matt this is Dave coming to you.from southern New Jersey and a bit.gloomy here today but we're getting.ready for the rain that Cleveland is.sending our way Louis hi I'm yeah I'm.coming to you from Nashville re and it's.it's bit cloudy here too and I want to.introduce or reintroduce our guest.speaker today Josh flowers who is with.changed her name now hbg design is that.right Josh that's right okay in Memphis.Tennessee and Josh and I did overlap for.a while before I escaped from Memphis.and moved to Nashville and he is a very.pleasant and intelligent person and I'm.just we were remarking beforehand that I.just would one of my regrets is that I.don't have get to spend enough time with.him to take ideas around and and just.talk Josh is unique in the state of.Tennessee and then he is both a.registered architect and a licensed.attorney and so he is general counsel.for hbg design but he is also a.certified construction specifier and a.certified construction contract.administrator in other words Josh's.primary hobby is taking tests say hi.Josh I think you Lewis and hello.everyone so today we're gonna talk a.little bit about construction warranties.and how to what they entail and their.effects and so forth and get a little.bit into how to specify that and our.goal here is of course not to give.direct legal.ice Josh would wanted me to say that for.for his behalf of nothing else but to.raise maybe your consciousness level so.that you know what questions need to be.asked of what things need to be.investigated and the watchword for our.program today is read the fine print.just like any contract correct exactly.any legal document so Josh what it what.is a warranty well the short version is.that a warranty would be a promise that.certain facts are true but then you get.into it's always subject to specified.limitations so you know we said just a.moment ago to read the fine print a lot.of that is all of the limitations.exceptions and other qualifiers that.make up the warranty so there's a.promise of some type but then it is.backed up by a lot of exceptions and.other restrictions that have to be.evaluated so that's the shorter.definition and then we'll start.exploring what that means especially as.it's applied to construction projects is.there a difference between warranty and.guarantee yes.the guarantee would be something that if.there's a third party who assumes.responsibility that is more of a.guarantee so you know if the contractor.is providing a bond there's a surety.that is providing a guarantee on behalf.of the contractor so there's a third.party involved when you have a guarantee.the warranty is a direct relationship so.that there's an assurance by.the primary party a lot of cases it's.the contractor providing a warranty.directly to the owner so there's a.little bit of a difference between the.two but the main idea is with a.guarantee you're asking who is the third.party and and who are they providing.their assurance on his behalf so trying.to make sure you have all of the parties.connected when you're thinking about who.is providing the warranty or the.guarantee and in the particular.circumstance so here's one example the.difference the guarantee that I like to.use is think of it as as parent.co-signing your children's auto loan.becomes a guarantee exactly.and that's a good example because it.gets into if you are that third-party.what assurances do you want from the.party that you're providing on their.behalf so when you're talking about.sureties they require a lot of.documentation when they're providing.something on the day on behalf of the.contractor so there is that relationship.they are providing the protection but.they're also seeking protection for.themselves so there's a lot of.documentation that has to be evaluated.particularly if you're talking about.bonds the warranties you may be able to.find those in the contract documents and.in other locations which is what we'll.explore as we move through those.discussion.Evon points out that guarantee I should.have spelt that with a y on the end and.because technically that's that's right.although you see that the word spelled.with two E's informally on a lot of.consumer goods and so forth.you it may say warranty or it may say.guarantee although technically with the.two E's that's the person who is being.protected and it's interesting that the.words warranty and guarantee are.actually derived from the same word it's.but in French they stick a G in front of.the W sound.how about warranties and insurance Josh.right so before we move on we're kind of.getting the ground rules out on the.table and wanted to add insurance into.the picture so we talked about the.possibility that there is if someone's.providing a guarantee there's a third.party who may be involved there may also.be insurance requirements which is.different from a surety or someone who.may be providing a guarantee so one of.the things that we talk about a lot if.you're providing a warranty is it also.insurable so you could provide a promise.but is it backed up by an insurance.policy or by some other ability to.perform what's required by the warranty.so that's one of the considerations that.you'll see a lot when you're talking.about warranties is that it may state.something but how is it backed up and.who is providing the backup that's.required so if insurance is part of the.picture one of the considerations is.what does the insurance policy state and.and who is being insured so the design.professional has a lot different.requirements from the construction.contractor and a lot of times if you're.looking at design professional.agreements sometimes you'll come across.agreements that have been drafted more.for a construction contractor so there.may be warranties that would work for.the contractor but would not be.insurable for a design.professional and one of the reasons for.that you can see the two different types.of insurance that we're talking about.and a lot of these cases would be either.the professional liability insurance.policy would apply particularly if it's.a design professional the professional.liability policy is what most often will.ensure their services the contractor.provides a general liability insurance.policy and the architect may as well but.they insure different things and the.thing to be aware of is that the.professional liability policy typically.will exclude what's referred to as.contractual liability and that in most.instances will encompass warranties that.may be included in the agreement so it's.an important distinction to be aware of.it's something that's coming up more.frequently and it's something that we.wanted to have stated upfront and keep.in the back of our minds as we move.through those when Josh and I were.working together we received a number of.owner written general conditions or.contracts that we were having to.negotiate and many of them would state.that the architect would guarantee that.all the a DA regulations were met or the.guarantee that the code would be met or.both and so we were founded very.successful in our negotiations to get.such onerous language out of the.contract by telling them that we can put.that in but it won't be covered by.insurance and they usually capitulate it.so what does the warranty do or as part.of the the effect why do we want one.hour and how does it affect the.different parties so part of those the.warranty is there to provide the.protection that the parties have.determined.needed for the project and a lot of this.is that you're getting into comparison.of what do different warranties do so if.you determine on a project that there is.a warranty needed for particular.assembly there may be multiple.warranties that would be available and.you're trying to determine what language.is involved in these different.warranties to try to compare them so the.warranty is there to provide that.protection it's stated within the.warranty it provides those specified.limitations and beyond that you're.looking at how does it fit into the.relationship of all of the different.parties who may be involved and we.talked about those a little bit in the.beginning so there's someone who's.providing the warranty that would be the.warrant or the first item on this was a.lot of times the person providing the.warranty may be the construction.contractor or it may be the manufacturer.so if you have a warranty provided by.the manufacturer they may be providing a.warranty that the product is free from.defects but the contractor may also be.providing a warranty for the workmanship.so there could be separate warranties of.working together to provide the.protection that the owner requires for.the project and you get into looking at.how those work together and making sure.that they coordinate the way that you.would intend for them to so that's one.of the things that may come up is trying.to make sure that the warranties.multiple warranties work together and of.course we need to recognize that.manufacturers in particular when they.write a warranty their primary goal is.to limit their liability to what they.think is reasonable or what they can.afford.how does the design and how do.warranties affect the design team who is.not strictly speaking a party to the.construction contract between the.contractor and the owner is our.warranties a good way to evaluate.products that the level of warranty that.is available well it certainly is a.consideration you want to see what are.all of the different components of the.warranty so that you're comparing apples.and apples and it can be very.challenging for the design team if they.are the ones trying to identify all of.the differences among different.warranties that are being compared for.possible selected products so the design.team may be involved in verifying that.warranties are part of the documents if.it's provided by the owner but there's.always that word of caution about.actually writing a warranty which.sometimes may be requested but if that.happens it sometimes can be an.indication that it may be something that.needs to be referred to the owners legal.counsel or it may be something that.needs to be coordinated more among the.construction team but the design team is.definitely part of the picture it's just.something that needs to be determined.depending on all of the circumstances.and of course one of the things that.we're seeing happening recently josh is.that the design teams will use a.particular manufacturer who tends to.offer an extended warranty meaning you.know five to ten years both for material.and for labor to include those.manufacturers in the specifications.listing their particular warranty terms.and as a means to force other competing.manufacturers to provide the same.warranty right and then there are the.companies that are fairly brand-new.maybe have a new product that they're.offering and they've only been in.business two or three years and yet they.will offer warranties of ten fifteen and.even twenty years that I've seen and how.believable is that is something that.everybody's going to have to make up.their all mind on one other thing when.we're talking about warranties with the.design team one thing that has come up.more frequently is that you will see in.the owner architect agreement sometimes.if it's an owner prepared form there are.more requests for the architect or.engineer to provide a warranty that.their documents do not infringe on.intellectual property that's owned by.third parties and that can be very.complicated when you're talking about.professional liability insurance and.other things and when we're talking.about electronic documents that is.something that is coming up more is that.the owner wants a request for the design.team to provide that type of warranty so.if you see that it's a question that.needs to be resolved through insurance.because as we said we don't want to.provide those warranties but that's.something that a lot of people are.seeing more frequently which is.different from these manufacturer.warranties and other things that.primarily involve the contractor this is.involving the work products provided by.the design team Louis I love Kevin.Auburn's comment here.hey 20 year warranty is worth it after.all it's on paper Kevin has a way of.cutting through the cloud with an.essential statement well let's let's.talk about the the different types of.warranties and their periods.contractors general warranty is stated.in a o2 201 paragraph 3.5 and what's the.period on that Josh we convert look at.it if you look at the language and a 201.this is the statement of the contractors.general warranty like Luis was saying.and as the earlier comment alluded to.you're always looking for what is the.time period associated with any warranty.and on this one you can see that there.is not a stated time period but it was.it would be governed by statutes in most.instances so if there's a statute of.repose that would apply that may be the.time period that's associated with the.warranty the other thing is what is the.starting point for any time period and.with most of these it would be.substantial completion but there could.always be language contained in the.warranty that would be some other type.of starting period and one of the things.that we were looking at if you're.familiar with the newer AI documents.you'll see the section AIA.with section 3 v 2 at the bottom of this.warranty which states that the warranty.has to be issued in the name of the.owner a lot of times there have been.concerns about the starting period for a.warranty requiring some type of.signature so the warranty does not start.until someone signs off on it or it is.not assignable to someone else so in a.lot of instances what the owner thought.they were getting as a warranty that.protected them there may have been.exception so there's language intended.to address those types of concerns but.in this instance you're looking at a lot.of times what is the location of the.project and how does that affect the.time period for this type of.a warranty and Josh when we rely on.substantial completion that can also get.to be pretty tricky especially with.multiple work package projects or with.multiple phases of a project so that you.may have multiple substantial completion.dates as well yes and for phase projects.it can be very important to track those.multiple certificates of substantial.completion where they have different.dates so if the owner is wanting to have.occupancy of a portion of the project.before the entire project is finished as.David was saying you may have multiple.dates of substantial completion so once.the project is finished if there's a.problem that arises and you're trying to.determine when did the warranty take.effect you may have multiple dates that.would need to be coordinated and there's.a concern about would it be the earlier.date or would you have to determine.which portion of the project was subject.to which particular certificates of.substantial completion so you know a lot.of it times you think about completing a.certificate of substantial completion is.more about filling in the blanks but now.we're seeing with phased projects there.can be a very detailed description of.the scope that's subject to that.particular certificate so that gets into.more technical writing requirements than.we've seen in the past with just.completing a certificate of substantial.completion so Adonis more complicated in.particular manufacturers of large HVAC.equipment really want their warranty to.start from when it's turned on which is.going to be well before substantial.completion of the entire project but.they figure if it's running during the.construction period that's when the.warranty should start for you okay are.we ready for the next I'm sorry I lost.audio for a minute there.and so we'll go back to oh I meant we.need to go back to the proceeding there.we go so we talked about the.manufacturer of the the contractor's.general warranty in its period and you.covered the statute of repose while I.was away yes we did talk about statute.of repose okay that's all right there's.no need to revise that for me so how do.was it how do the manufacturers general.warranty differ from a special warranty.that a to one in the new eight to one.paragraph that we just looked at right.so as we were saying earlier the.manufacturer typically will provide some.type of warranty but there could be.different warranties for the same.product or there could be multiple.warranties that would apply to a single.product so there could be a warranty.that would cover any defects in the.product itself or there could also be.the contractor's warranty for.workmanship that would apply in.different respects depending on what.type of product was being warranted.there could also be some type of special.warranty that would provide some terms.of the warranty that are required and.the contract documents or required by.the owner or it could be something that.the manufacturer has provided for every.product so it gets to be more of a.comparison to determine among multiple.warranties that could be available or.applicable to that particular product is.the end result that it's providing the.owners desired protection so that gets.to be a big challenge when you're.looking.you know different warranties that are.intended to work together that have.their own exceptions and other things.that would apply so that's one of the.considerations that we get into a lot is.making sure that those warranties work.the way they're intended yes for the.owners well-being and protection David.since I was offline for a minute did you.address Ellen and Edwards comments no we.did not did not get to those so I'll go.ahead so Ellen Ithaca wits is just.stating part of the problem with.manufacturer warranties is that they.claim to start at the time of delivery.to the the product in the project site.all the documents I require right.require warranty to start its.substantial completion sometimes.multiple substantial completions as.stated so is there I guess there is.there a concern there Josh about how we.might address those conditions and the.specifications other than to recognize.substantial completion as the start.point of the warranty yes well there's.definitely a concern and it's an.important thing to point out because the.time of delivery you know we were just.talking about phase projects so.something could be delivered to the site.because of available pricing not.necessarily when it will actually be.incorporated into the work so a lot of.times you'll see that something was.purchased and delivered well before it.is intended to be incorporated so a lot.of time can go by before you reach.substantial completion for those types.of warranties so trying to make sure the.substantial completion is the date that.applies to all of the warranties is.usually the general strategy that you.want to use it's just a matter of trying.to make sure that the person providing.the warranty hasn't tried to make that.exception.to say that it starts at the time of.delivery or any time typically trying to.make it earlier than substantial.completion because that way they've.started the clock running before it's.even incorporated into the work we're in.which is when any defects would would be.discovered or at least the earliest that.you would expect that they would be.discovered so it's definitely something.that has to be addressed.ok board I stone says please address.state requirements for providing a.contract warranty it's not the state the.statutes are not really in that.terminology what the statutes say is.that there's a time limit an ultimate.time limit not just for filing that's.the stature to repose but I mean the.statute of limitations but there's an.ultimate limit after which the owner.cannot file a claim against the.contractor or the architect and they're.usually the same period and that's.called the statute of repose Tennessee.is a very short one it's only four years.that can be extended in certain.circumstances to five Mississippi is six.but I know some states are ten years or.more AIA publishes a list of all those.states so that you you might want to get.a copy of that if you're doing work in.other states to find out what their.limitations are because it affects the.architect as well as the contractor okay.I'd like to jump ahead and the questions.to two another one from Kevin or Baron.saying given comprehensive protection of.the general conditions correction period.he's not so sure how important a.manufacturer standard warranty truly is.is that is that something that you might.agree with Josh I do agree to some.extent because in a lot of these.conversations what you're trying to get.is something that is at the high level.of what that question refers to the.correction of work.period and we are skipping ahead a.little bit talking about that but.there's a different provision in the.a201 that provides what's referred to as.the one year correction of work period.and that is where if anything goes wrong.the contractor has agreed to remedy.those issues if it falls within that one.year period regardless of whether it's a.manufacturer issue a workmanship issue.or or something that would not be.covered under other warranties but then.once you get beyond that that's when all.of these other things would come into.play within the time period that we're.but you would want to determine based on.the location of the project so I think.that there still is some significance to.those warranties depending on where it.would fall on your timeline so that's.really the consideration that you want.to look at is does it provide anything.beyond that one-year correction of work.period that would be desired and and is.there a cost associated that would it be.worth it yeah this really on point.specifying a 1-year manufacturer.warranty is absolutely we need to pick.up the pace just a little bit Josh you.want to explain very briefly what the.warranty provisions are under the.Uniform Commercial Code so there's also.the UCC which applies to the sale of.goods and in general anything that is.sold is intended to be free from defects.under the UCC so if there is a problem.with something that is sold the UCC can.provide protections but it also has very.specific rules that apply and there may.be considerations about how it would.affect you know we talked about delivery.to the site there may be other.restrictions because it's dealing.specifically with the sale of particular.components not necessarily how they are.incorporated into the project yeah.exactly so it really applies only.between the vendor and the contractor or.even the subcontractor it doesn't really.affect the the owner can't claim under.it okay and we looked at that so oh the.correction of work period we were.jumping ahead so here you go John yes so.we have discussed this already but this.is what where you will find the.correction of work language and the a201.and that is what provides this one-year.period so if you take a look at those a.lot of times you may hear this referred.to as a warranty and that is a common.misconception but this is specific.contract language that's part of the.contractor's agreement with the owner so.it's just an extension of the work of.the project and making sure that there.is this one-year period where the.contractor will correct any problems.that arise and it doesn't differentiate.among different components of the.project as we were saying it's amazing.you know if you have something done on.your house the contractors probably only.give you going to give you a one-year.work warranty.however in commercial construction it's.amazing how many contractors even and.and even lawyers other than Josh of.course who do not understand that the or.the actual period of the contractors.warranty is a multi-year that is defined.by the statute of repose and fail to.recognize the first sentence here.paragraph 12 point two point five that.says nothing campaign gained in this.section shall be construed to establish.a period of limitation with respect to.other obligations the contractor has.under contract documents establishment.of the one-year period for correction of.work as described in section 12 2 2.relates only to the specific obligation.of the contractor to correct the work.and has a run of no relationship to the.time within which is the obligation to.comply with the contract documents may.be sought to be enforced mm-hmm.and we'll also point out you can see in.that language that that one-year period.also starts as of the date on.substantial completion right so in.effect it's a matter of the owner.identifying any work that would.otherwise be considered defective so.under the contract the contractor has.the obligation to correct that defective.work that one-year mark in mind for.anything that is known that it has.communicated to the contractor so that.it can be corrected under that one-year.correction of work period without going.beyond and the burden of proof that it's.you know if the contractor thinks that.the failure was the result of extreme.weather or abuse or vandalism or.something like that the burden of proof.is on him to say oh it's not my fault.whereas after the first year the burden.of proof now is on the owner just to say.that the work was defective originally.which can make the difference when.you're talking about some of these.warranty claims providing documentation.can be a big challenge and so not having.that burden really does change the.position of the parties and a lot of.cases.my friend Scott Anderton from Birmingham.who is an excellent independent.specifier says state work in Alabama.requires that the warranty be.administered under the laws of the state.of Alabama rather than Delaware which.seems to be a favorite yes and Alabama.also has one of the longer statutes of.repose so it affects the time period.significantly you know what that is off.an anomaly does 15 years Wow.so compare that to Tennessee where it's.four years you know adjacent states it.can be very different.okay so there's a problem and we wanted.the owner wants to be made whole we call.those the remedies so what kind of.remedies are available under various.warranties one of the things the first.one listed here having a complete.replacement or repairing the work is one.option but in a lot of instances you'll.see that it may be subject to some of.these exceptions so they may provide.what's referred to as materials only or.there could be other exceptions that it.would not provide the full replacement.one of the other considerations is you.know it may not just be the particular.product that failed it may be the damage.that was caused to other portions of the.project so if you're talking about some.type of waterproofing warranty and not.just the failure of the waterproofing.itself but the water damage that is.caused to the project are those types of.instances covered within these.warranties so that's amore.right it's a cut and consequential.damages you know we talked about that.term a lot when you're talking about the.extent of damages for the project and.extending to loss profits and other.things but this is a different context.because we're talking about you know one.particular product but the consequence.of that could extend to other parts of.the project other materials and other.things and you think about these other.materials may have their own warranties.but you can imagine that they will.exclude defects and other materials that.caused the damage to those components.themselves so it can get very.complicated when you're.trying to sort out which type of.warranty will provide some type of.remedy when you have extensive damage to.the project caused by particular.failures and of course some warranties.have provisions for prorated use that if.the if the warranty is for ten years and.the claim comes in at five years you may.only get a 50% payoff where is one of.the things about roofing warranties most.roofing warranties are that they are.pretty good about being no dollar limit.that if it blows off in a 20-year.warranty if it blows off at the eleventh.month of the nineteenth year.theoretically the main manufacturer has.to come out and completely replace the.roof are there other potential remedies.we're talking about replacement or.repair.is there also a potential monetary.remedy for instance if there's some.failure where a repair might only just.make say an appearance worse might there.be some monetary response there there.could be and like we've been saying.before the warranty language will tell.you or in some cases try to obscure what.actually is provided or what is actually.covered and that's where we get to this.last bullet here about what are the.claim procedures and how does that.affect what type of remedy you're able.to access because there could be you.know replacement could be listed.somewhere there could be some type of.monetary remedy that's provided within.the warranty but there are these.procedures that have to come into play a.lot of times you look at the conditions.that are placed on the warranty so some.type of maintenance.other sign offs or other things that had.to happen and it doesn't just mean that.if there was a failure of maintenance.that caused the problem but the.maintenance may be a condition to.accessing whatever remedy the warranty.is intended to provide so that's where.you get into a lot of these.complications and can be a very weak the.claim process to try to sort out and.like we said before if it's a part of a.bigger issue some of these warranty.questions can really slow down the.bigger picture of a claim because it can.be so time-consuming to try to go.through the process of trying to hold.the warrant or to account well as David.is fond of pointing out roof warranties.some manufacturers you may need to prove.that you performed all the maintenance.issues that are stated in the warranty.all the maintenance procedures I should.say stated in the warranty to be able to.collect on the warranty exactly and if.there were 51 procedures and you only.did 50 a lot of times but it doesn't it.doesn't help you you have to do.everything that's required or you get.nothing and that can be very frustrating.if you're on the wrong side of that type.of decision and then there's the.materials only warranty remedies at one.time most the efz manufacturers were.like that that if you could prove that.their product on them as and that was.installed on the building was in fact.defective but you had to prove that it.was defective they would give you a.brand new bucket of stuff that you could.use ACM warranties are a bit like that.because the ACM manufacturers do not.manufacture or take responsibility for.how the panels are mounted on the.buildings they are only.responsible for replacing individual.materials for individual panels that.might be laminate or discolor or.whatever okay so how do we specify the.right stuff we finally got to the really.important part sorry Josh we've alluded.to those I think as we've been going.through these different discussions of.what the warranties are but it's the.idea is that the warranty has to be.stated somewhere so there can be.warranties contained in the.specifications or it may be something.that is referenced within the contract.documents in some particular location we.looked at the ones earlier that come.from the general conditions there may be.other warranties that are part of.division one and there could be product.warranties that are required elsewhere.and the specifications and we did.mention earlier the word of caution.about trying to create new warranties.which could take on additional liability.for trying to write something and then.if there are problems later how would.that be interpreted if it was not.working as intended or as the owners are.there our third bullet yeah but the.first bullet I want to talk about a.little bit or get your opinion out in.master spec a number of the sections.require and many of our listeners today.are subscribers to master spec a number.of our the sections have a statement and.in the informational submittals.requiring a sample warranty form.and it appears that the idea is that the.architect would take that sample.warranty form forward it to the owner.and tell them to get their legal counsel.to look at it the legal counsel would.look at it and either approve it accept.it try to modify it or say no maybe.better buy some a different product but.all of that takes time and it's probably.not a very practical approach but what.do you think about that situation Josh.it is very it's very time-consuming and.that's why a lot of times it can be.impractical but in those rare instances.where there is something that would.warrant the involvement of outside legal.counsel if it's something that's so.critical to the project that it has to.be figured out in order for the project.to be successful some types of wall.assemblies or if there's some type of.innovative sustainability requirement or.something else sometimes it is worth it.to go through that process although even.in those instances it may not play out.exactly the way it may be reflected in.master spec but a lot of times it's it's.a question about is it worth going.through that process because because.it's more of a necessity for the project.so in in that kind of a case if we're.trying to specify a special warranty is.it does it suffice in the specification.then to try to list the the items that.would be considered a failure and then.the term of the warranty for however.long it may be is that going to be.enough you would imagine that in most.instances there could be other.complications especially when you're.trying to isolate particular products.because there's always something that.has the potential to slip through the.cracks and that is the challenge of.trying to write some of those types of.warranties is that you're dealing more.with an assembly and when you start.focusing on these individual components.it can be very difficult but that's.where it can be to the benefit of the.owner to have that correction of work.period or something else that is more.global in nature for the project taking.everything into account not being so.laser focused on any particular product.or isolating different products with.them within the warranty I want to go.back to that sample special warranty.that master spec often asked for my.concern is that if architects do not.understand that they're supposed to.forward that to the owner for to be.considered by the owners legal counsel.and just sit on it and something goes.wrong that could work against the.architect in terms of its liability I.was the Claims Manager for the firm that.Josh works for now for ten years and.some of the boneheaded stuff that owners.and their counsel come up with that's.not an extreme case by any means so if.it's something that's more routine and.you still have that requirement in there.and it's not foreseeable that you will.actually go through that process it may.be worth considering is that something.that needs to be in there if it's not.actually going to play out the way it's.stated in the documents.so judgment go ahead go ahead Kevin had.a couple of comments where were a.comment when considering specifying a.special or extended manufacturer's.warranty one always ask InDesign if the.thing that is the warranty with the.coverage desired is available and to ask.what it costs and that's a good reminder.you know Roofing those twenty year.twenty five year thirty year warranties.are not free that there is a cost that.is built into the cost of the.subcontract for that work and so those.are excellent quote good comments from.Kevin and definitely you know it's been.very possible to write warranties that.only exist in your head they're fixable.that no manufacturer would ever do and.so you know we do need to be realistic.so Josh have an opportunity in some.instances when you're asking that.question where does the owner want to.invest its warranty dollars because.obviously there is the cost involved and.that can be where the design.professional may be able to provide some.input on where the investment would have.the most effectiveness and where would.it be most needed because there may not.be available funds to cover everything.but where how can you be strategic and.assigning what is available miss Melissa.leap points out you need to note that.the additional cost for a 20-year roof.is not double the cost of a ten-year.roof it's pennies to the dollar for.twenty year so Josh I'd like to back up.to a comment that you were making.earlier about assemblies and warranty.assemblies so we've we've seen an.increase in interest of say warranting.the building envelope as an assembly.is that something that really is doable.through a warranty since it's involving.multiple components multiple.manufacturers there's this something.maybe we should be considering a bond in.place of a warranty and we were talking.about in the very beginning of this.discussion we talked about the.difference between the warranty and the.guarantee and possibly bringing in a.third party so it's not just the.contractor providing a warranty to the.owner and it gets into that question.about do you need some extra support.some extra resources to make the.warranty on value and when you're.getting into questions about if.something goes wrong who is going to be.available to provide performance under.the warranty that's where you get into.comparing what's actually written in the.warranty to the anticipated performance.so a lot of times you see you know if.it's a company who's been in business.for only five years but they're.providing a 20-year warranty and.comparing that to a company who's been.in business for 50 years but they're not.providing the same length of time and.how do you compare that it's just.getting into the next step of that.question is do you need someone who has.more of an expertise and sorting out.those types of claims and a lot of times.if you're talking about a bond you're.now bringing a surety into the picture.and are they contributing any more than.just providing some type of underlying.funds are they going to help expedite a.claims process or is there something.else that they are bringing to the table.in addition to this financial backing so.there are a lot of factors that could.play into it but it's definitely.something.that we see changing because we're.trying to see what is the future of this.discussion so are there new ways that we.will be looking at trying to provide.this type of protection that we're.talking about it's definitely something.that that is now an additional.consideration but if you're you.sometimes you don't want to be the first.one to try some of these different.things because we tend to gravitate more.to the tested means of providing these.so those are a few of the questions that.we see when that comes up and it will be.interesting to see is that shifting how.we're providing some of these in the.future okay well thanks everyone for.joining us.oh we have one less comment from Edward.I stem federal government GSA once an.issue is corrected under the warranty.federal government contracts require.that the term of the warranty start over.again for that issue rather than.continue on the original term or period.is there a government clause to protect.the contractor from excessive claims.that have to extend the warranty.no no excellent questions and the harm.do you know the answer to that one David.I do not but I want to know if you know.the answer to Zoran Papa Vicks question.we're going to talk about next month no.he wants to know what we're talking.about in March 2017 oh I don't remember.what we did a year ago.well that's our presentation says that's.when we're making this presentation.oh I'm just slightly behind times I have.to fix that before.Matt puts it on YouTube earlier about.having the warranty starting earlier.that's hoping everybody is watching.these days yes very good.well we've we've predated the.presentation so any any implied warranty.is now expired one-year warranty well we.you know we really appreciate everyone.coming to join us on these discussions.we know that your time is valuable.you're taking time out of your workday.to to join us and we try to come up with.some things that we think will not only.be of interest but maybe have some.benefit to you and we hope that today's.session raised some questions for you to.think about and and talk about when.you're selecting products and evaluating.warranties and a lot of owners have.unrealistic expectations out of.warranties and you may need to tell them.what's really happening we appreciate.all of you taking the time on your.Thursday to attend and as David said we.hope to see you again.in April on the fifth look for that.information and email shortly but also.if you go to the CSI website under the.events calendar it is already listed.there with a topic to be determined so.feel free to register now why it's so.fresh in your mind and we look forward.to seeing you then thanks everyone have.a great day.

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How long does a builder warranty last?

Builder’s warranties vary in length of coverage from six months to two years. Some builder warranties might extend to 10 years for major structural defects.

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