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hello and welcome to our webinar on what.you need to know about forms w8 and w9.i'm your presenter today my name is.jimmy sexton before we get started just.brief housekeeping matter this.presentation was prepared for.educational purposes only this.presentation is not legal or tax advice.nor is it to be construed as such each.individual circumstances are different.you should seek legal and/or tax advice.to address any specific questions you.may have a couple of other brief items.there's two handouts that are available.for download from your GoToWebinar.control panel you can download esquire.groups w8 guide and also this.presentation is available for download.in PDF format a little bit about myself.again my name is jimmy sexton my.educational background I have a.bachelor's in business administration.with an emphasis in finance a JD in LLM.in international taxation I'm the.president of Esquire Group we have.offices in Austria Germany the United.Arab Emirates and the United States we.specialized in international taxation.including tax issues facing US citizens.and resident aliens living abroad.expatriation investing or doing business.abroad and foreign investment in the.u.s. I'm fluent in English and German if.any you want to know more about me feel.free to check out my bio at the link on.this slide as we go through the.information feel free to type in any.questions into your GoToWebinar control.panel and when we get to the end of the.presentation I'll do.a Q&A period and do my best to answer.all those questions please try to keep.the questions very general not related.to your specific situation as I'll skip.over those so first we're going to start.off by talking about what the w8 series.forms are in general because there's.several different w8 forms so what are.the w8 series forms used for so foreign.taxpayers meaning those who are not US.citizens or US tax resident or green.card holders are generally subject to a.30% withholding tax on us source fixed.or determinable annual or periodical.income for short F gap income F def.income consists generally of interest.dividends rents royalties premiums.annuities compensation for services.substitute payments and security lending.transactions or other fixed determinable.annual periodical gains profits or.income so fixed determinable annual and.periodical income is basically income.that is paid from time to time that is.paid on in different intervals and the.payer of that income is going to be.required to withhold attacks so we'll.talk a little bit more about that in a.minute.so the w8 forms are used to certifying.the foreign tax payer status so that is.one to certify that they are in fact a.foreign person whether it be an entity.an individual and to disclose certain.information that will determine what the.payers tax withholding requirements are.on payments to this foreign taxpayer.like I said before.it's the payer of the income that's.responsible for withholding the tax and.paying it to the IRS so I'll give you a.couple examples of this let's say for.example you have a foreign national that.were that owned stock in a US company.and the US company decides to pay a.dividend of $10,000 well because of the.30 percent withholding tax instead of.paying this foreign taxpayer the $10,000.dividend the payer meaning the.corporation actually would have to send.30% of the $10,000 to the IRS for $3,000.and the remaining 70% for $7,000 would.go to the foreign tax payer now absent.any reduction in withholding due to a.treat due to a tax treaty or something.like that.this 30% is a flat tax that is not going.to be refundable on to the recipient of.the income what's really important to.remember here especially for u.s. payers.of F def income is that not only is the.payer responsible for withholding the.tax and paying it to the IRS the payer.is also primarily responsible for the.tax so let's say going back to the.example of the $10,000 dividend being.paid to the foreign shareholder if the.company failed to withhold the 30.percent withholding tax and pay it to.the IRS it would be the company that.would be liable for the withholding tax.not the foreign taxpayer so going to the.example of the $10,000 dividend and the.$3,000 tax that needs to be withheld and.paid to the IRS by the company if the.company failed to withhold that $3,000.in tax and pay it to the IRS the IRS.would go after the.company for that $3,000 not the foreign.shareholder so it's very important for.us payers of F DEP income to foreigners.to get the proper w8 forms to determine.the withholding tax requirements and to.make sure that they comply with those.withholding tax requirements because.otherwise it's going to be the payer.that's responsible not the foreign.recipient of that income the W the W 8.Series forms are required by generally.by US financial institutions and fact.that compliant foreign financial.institutions so if any of you listening.today are our foreigners I'm sure as.you've gone into your bank to open up a.new account or something like that.you've had to fill out some type of w8.form to certify that you're a foreigner.and that you're not a US taxpayer for.factored purposes so most financial.institutions around the world are now.requiring one of the w8 Series forms.from their account holders so that they.can certify the services that they know.what their facta status is and how to.treat the account so now we're going to.jump into the first w8 form on our list.and this is the w8 and the wabe n this.form is the certificate of foreign.status of beneficial owner for United.States tax withholding and reporting so.this is the form to be completed by.foreign individuals to sort of phi their.foreign status for withholding tax.purposes this also includes disregarded.entities owned by foreign individuals so.an example of this is let's say we had.an Australian citizen that's resident in.Australia and they owned a US LLC that's.a disregarded entity.that owns a rental property even though.that LLC technically is is an entity in.the u.s. because it's a single member.LLC it's generally disregarded for tax.purposes and because it's disregarded.for tax purposes it's as if the owner of.the LLC the Australian owned that.property directly so you would still use.a wate n in this situation on the WH B.and you have to provide amongst other.things your name contact details your.date of birth your US social security.number or individual taxpayer.identification number if you have one.and your foreign taxpayer identification.number additionally there is a section.on the w8v and where you can claim.treaty benefits in the context of w8b.ends treaty benefits would be reduced.withholding so the US has a lot of tax.treaties with countries all over the.world that reduces that 30% withholding.on F DAP income sometimes all the way.down to zero so if you were a resident.of a country that had a tax treaty with.the United States and that tax treaty.reduced the 30 percent withholding tax.than on the w8 BN you could claim that.reduced withholding by identifying the.country that you're resident of the type.of income in the article of the treaty.or you're relying on and then the US.payer of that income would only have to.withhold that reduced amount of.withholding rather than the entire 30.percent so next is the wate ne the w8 v.ena is similar to the WH ven except it's.for foreign entities to certify their.foreign status for withholding tax.purposes and this would also include.disregarded entities that.were owned by a foreign entity so going.back to the example of the Australian.owning a US LLC that's disregarded for.US income tax purposes that in turn owns.rental property the same would be true.here if you had let's say an Australian.corporation that owned a US LLC that was.disregarded for income tax purposes and.it owned a rental property the wabe.would be the correct form to use in that.situation the other thing that the w8b.II and II does is it provides the.entities factor classification this is.very important in determining if an.entity is a passive non foreign.financial institution or an active non.foreign financial institution or if the.entity is a foreign financial.institution and if so what kind so that.can be a little bit daunting figuring.out what an entity's factor.classification is oftentimes the help of.a professional tax advisor is needed and.you look at the form w8b DME it's a bit.intimidating.amongst other things the main.information that needs to be provided on.the wabe any is the entity name the type.of entity it's factor classification the.contact details the country formation.the USVI n number of the employer.identification number if it has one the.foreign tax payer identification number.and the gen the djinn is the identifying.number that entities use when they're.registered for with the IRS for four.facto purposes again much like the wabe.n the wabe and E is used or can be used.to claim reduced withholding under a US.income tax treaty there's a section on.it just like the w8 BN where you can.identify what treaty you're claiming the.benefits.under what article of the treaty reduces.the withholding and and - what about.next is the w8e CI this is the.certificate of foreign persons claim.that income is effectively connected.with the conduct of a US trade or.business in the US this form is used by.both foreign individuals and entities to.certify that income is effectively.connected with a US trade or business.again this would include disregarded.entities if a foreign person and when I.say foreign person and speaking of both.foreign individuals and entities files a.form WABC I claiming that the income is.effectively connected with the US trade.of business and the income does have to.effectively be effectively connected.with the US trade or business in order.to qualify then the payor of that income.is relieved of their duty to withhold.tax on the income that's paid and pay it.over to the IRS rather the tax payment.responsibilities then shift to the.taxpayer from the payer an example of.this would be if we if we look at the.example that I gave earlier the US.company paying a ten thousand dollar.dividend to its foreign shareholder that.wouldn't really qualify as something.where somebody could file a w8e CI.and claim that that dividend was.effectively connected with a US trade.business because that foreign.shareholder just invested in a company.that that they're receiving a dividend.from it's an investment a good example.where WATC is are fairly common is.rental properties in the united states.that are owned by foreigners so what a.lot of people don't know is that if a.foreign person an entity or an.individual owns a US rental property.that rental payments are considered FF.income and our subject to withholding so.if let's say you have a property manager.that's managing a property for a foreign.landlord that property manager is.technically required to get a w8b en.from the foreign landlord and withhold.30% of the gross rents and pay it to the.IRS what a lot of people don't know is.that if if it for example you had a.foreign landlord that rented direct to a.tenant the tenant is actually.responsible for getting form w8v NE and.withholding tax on the gross rent and.paying it to the IRS at a rate of 30.percent now 30 percent of gross rent can.be quite a lot of money because we're.talking about gross rents meaning no.deductions for any expenses so what a.lot of foreign landlords do is they'll.file form WATC I with their tenant or.with the property management company to.claim that the rents are effectively.connected with the US trade or business.and rental income would be effectively.connected with the u.s. trader business.because it's happening in the United.States and what happens in that.situation is that then the property.management company or the tenant is.relieved of their duty to withhold and.pay the tax to the IRS.in fact the withholding is eliminated.completely and the foreign landlord is.then responsible for filing a u.s. tax.return and paying any tax that's due and.especially with rental properties filing.the form w8e CI and filing the u.s. tax.return to take care of any u.s. tax.liability is generally the right way to.go because by the time you have your.gross rents and then you deduct.The Associated expenses with the rental.property and depreciation you wind up.with a much lower tax burden than you.would with the w8 ven and paying 30% of.gross rents to the IRS on the WATC I.generally you have to provide the name.of the the individual or the entity the.entity type if it's an entity to contact.details date of birth for individuals.the country of formation if it's an.entity and then if you see if it's an.individual you'd have to provide the US.social security number or individual.taxpayer identification number that is a.requirement for using a w8 ECI so if the.foreign landlord didn't have a social.security number or I 10 they would need.to get one in order for the w8 VCI to be.effective.likewise entities would whether the.foreign of domestic would have to have.an EIN to be able to to use form w8 DCI.and both entities and individuals also.need to provide the foreign tax payer.identification number and also the.income that is being claimed as.effectively connected with US trade or.business needs to be identified on the.form w8 ECI so going back to the example.of a rental property you generally have.to identify that you were receiving.rental income from a property and give.the address and that it's effectively.connected with a u.s. trader business so.moving right along this is a the w8 exp.is is a much less common w8 form not.something that a lot of people have to.deal with but I thought I'd mention it.anyway this is a certificate of foreign.government or other foreign organization.for United States tax withholding so.this is to be used by foreign.governments and in.national organizations for those of you.don't know international organizations.like the UN certain charities the Red.Cross think things like that most of.these organizations are exempt from.withholding tax.so by filing the form WH exp they would.be exempted on any withholding from us F.DEP income generally the information.needs to be provided as with the other.w8 forms is the organization name the.entity type the fact classification.contact details country of formation US.employer identification number if any.and the foreign tax for identification.number and the fact that gen4 FATCA.purposes if it's if the entity has won.the last w8 we're going to be talking.about is the w8 I my the w8 I my is a.certificate of foreign intermediary form.flow-through entity or certain US.branches for United States tax.withholding and reporting so this form.is to be completed by intermediaries and.flow-through entities flow-through.entities are generally certain trusts.partnerships basically entities that are.not taxable themselves but are used as.as conduits to split income between the.beneficial owners of that income.intermediaries can be for example.brokerage houses basically anybody.that's not actually the beneficial owner.of the income but is acting as an.intermediary between the payer of the.income and the beneficial owner the the.intermediary or floater entity can claim.an exemption from having US income tax.withheld from F.income if it agrees to take.responsibility for withholding the tax.on the income belonging to the.beneficial owners so for example if we.were talking about a foreign bank that.does portfolio management for its.clients.on the face of it there should be.withholding tax on the dividends being.paid to this foreign bank but this.foreign bank really isn't the beneficial.owner of the income its clients are so.that bank could be alleviated of having.tax withheld if it agrees to withhold.the tax on the income allocable to the.beneficial owners and pay that to the.IRS like with the other w8 forms.generally have to provide the entity.name the entity type factor.classification contact details country.of formation the u.s. ein if there is.one the foreign tax payer identification.number and the FATCA gen if applicable.the last form we're going to talk about.is form w-9 this is request for taxpayer.identification number and certification.this is the form to be used by US.persons both individuals and entities.and the form really serves two purposes.one is to certify that the person is a.u.s. person two it's used to certify the.taxpayer identification number whether.that is a social security number for an.individual or an employer identification.number for an entity u.s. taxpayers.generally are not subject to withholding.so if it W US taxpayer provides a w-9 to.a US payer of income and the generally.would not be any withholding the.information on the form is much like the.w8 forms it's the individuals or.entities name the entity type if it's an.entity contact details date of birth if.it's an individual and then the US.social security number or ein.depending on on whether you're dealing.with an individual or an entity that.takes us to the end of our presentation.on forms w8 and w9.

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