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[Music].hello everyone welcome to the september.2020 uart meeting.uh glad to have you all here uh either.live.in quotes or vicariously uh or on replay.we encourage you to ask questions on.the facebook on the youtube chat while.you're watching it on youtube.and i'll do my best to keep an eye on it.let's see uh first off.uh morris how are you doing this evening.and uh tell us a bit about classes and.whatever you think you whether you deem.appropriate.well we won't go into how i'm feeling.but.i'd be glad to talk about classes um we.have.a technician class and a general class.both of which are starting next week.the technician class will be on monday.evenings from seven to nine pm.on zoom uh if you are.and the general class will be on.wednesday evenings.from seven to nine pm uh and.next monday is the 14th the next.wednesday is the 16th.so if you are interested in taking.either of those classes or you know.somebody that.is please have them send me an email.immediately we are going to try and have.a.practice session to make sure that.everybody can use zoom properly.on saturday afternoon and.rather than take up time class time on.monday or wednesday.so send me email at my call sign.ad7sr that's alpha delta seven sierra.romeo.at arl.net did i get it right this time.yes that sounds good i'm including that.information.on i just posted that on this on the.youtube chat.okay thank you and uh back to you.all right um let's see we don't have a.lot in the way of announcements uh.gordon.uh have anything else to bring up.uh as far as announcements go and.whatnot.well let's see we believe that the uh.davis county.swap meet is coming up on the 19th of.september or saturday morning.and it's held in that uh city park.and bountiful that you can access by.taking the.uh fourth south exit from the freeway if.you're.going north north what's that north.north.north north excuse me yes absolutely.for those looking for chances to take.exams.or amateur licenses or upgrades.the best thing we have right now is to.go to.uh ham study dot o-r-g.forward slash sessions.there's a group in taylorsville that's.having a session.on the last monday of every month so if.you scroll.through the listings there you'll be.able to sign up for that.or in scrolling through all those you.will likely find.a number of sessions that are being.given online.and originating in different parts of.the country.the nice thing about that is that.you don't need to be in the same.city or state as the team that's giving.the test.so any of those that say that they have.open slots or if you're a game.if you don't mind taking the test on.your home computer.okay is that local exams mostly.or is that all of them actually it was.originally mostly.local events it was put together by a.group in utah county.but now it's largely filled with.online sessions from all over the.country.let's see the next meeting will be.homebrew night.and homerun night is a bit problematic.as you can imagine since we.cannot uh hold stuff up to the chat.window.on youtube so we are.considering several things the best way.to do it will be to.get to us a video or a pdf.or just some stills and then for the.presentation.we will have the people with something.to present.invite them on the zoom chat and then we.will.insist that only one person plays the.videos or chats while the.person whose project it is will narrate.of course.that eliminates the problems with people.trying to figure out how to use zoom for.the first time but we'll do the best we.can with that.and also it allows us if we have the.video showing what's happening.to uh incorporate that into the.offline or after the meeting edited.version that we'll post the day or so.later.so homebrew utaharc.org if you have a.homebrew project.please let us know why that email.address.what it is you have in mind it should be.possibly ham radio related although we.have.a bit of latitude on things like that.and uh we're asking for pictures.and a short video clip perhaps.uh minimal movement is possible you know.if it's more of a slideshow.but you know try to keep the camera from.moving around a lot because as you can.imagine.the zoom and the compression is terrible.uh for these live meetings and we.haven't worked.out a way around that just yet so we'll.post more details.in the next couple days on the utah.amateur radio club radio site on exactly.how to submit your projects.so we hope to see at least one or two.submissions.that you've been doing stuff and you.have been doing stuff haven't you.because you've been locked inside this.whole time.anyway uh we hope to see you then.uh morris uh and gordon any.thing else you might want to bring up uh.before we roll over to our guest.speaker tonight.the only thing that i'd like to mention.and i forgot to mention that when i.talked about classes.is that i have a very limited number of.books available.so if you plan on taking the class.get with me immediately otherwise.i will be out of books within the next.day or so.that's all i have okay and uh if you're.out of books.what do you recommend that they do to.get more books.uh if they send me an email i can send.them.two different urls uh one for the arrl.website and one for the amazon website.where they can order the books.uh the amazon website will get them the.book the quickest probably.but uh in reality they won't have to.have the book.until uh next thursday or friday.so they can have do the reading.necessary to make the class.in the next week okay in other words if.they don't have the book.do not let that stop them if they want.to take a class.that's correct okay um i would like to.say.hello to bruce boyce he says good.evening i'm edu ham kj7.ocean x-ray bravo one of morris's.uh fledglings so thank you for showing.up.um let's see we're seeing a few texts.or comments here about power still out.in a few places i guess they're watching.on their phone or something.and please excuse the ginormous cat.right here.i'm projecting my green screen onto a.sheet and there's a chair behind there.and you can see the outline of a cat.there.that uh i didn't move the chair but oh.well adds a bit of whimsy.anyway um uh if there's nothing else.from the uh club.officer i will introduce chris.uh vk3aml live from melbourne australia.now if you've been around for a while.you have may have actually met chris in.person.um chris uh myself gordon.uh brett and a few other people were.involved in the 2008.2007 period with wide beam.communications you might remember that.and it just so happened that chris was.able to make a trip to the united states.in 08 and he came to utah.and we gave him the whirlwind tour went.down to california to meet one of the.pioneers and.in uh lightweight communications and.that sort of thing.so he is no stranger to us he.occasionally appears on irlp.on the 7-6 repeater or or the 6-2.repeater.um and uh so he's.uh been a friend an acquaintance for a.dozen years or more.i can hardly believe that uh chris um.take off run with it i hope not.well it's it's hello from australia it's.friday here.it's lunch time um and i can only.reflect on how extraordinary.communications are these days that.allows.this sort of involvement across the.world this is very much an experiment.that.clinton and i have set up i have a half.hour presentation to show you.and there are all sorts of problems in.streaming with zoom and i hope.eventually to get a.full 1080p or 720p.copy of this across to clint by other.means.um so that you can see the presentation.in its original definition.for the moment uh we'll have to put up.with a little bit of.fluidity of motion loss on the faster.moving sections of this but.i prepared a apart from a description of.the digital streaming system for hf and.voice bandwidth.[Music].known generally as easy pal digital slow.scan but the program is actually much.broader.than the name implies it's not just for.the transmission of pictures it's for.the transmission.of anything digital microsoft word.documents.spreadsheets even exe files but.please don't quote me there i don't want.people sending viruses across the world.via hf we've got enough problems.on there as it is um so.with some trepidation i'll switch across.to.a little recorded presentation and the.first part of that presentation.i'm sure you'll be as unfamiliar with.somebody.lecturing to you from abroad as i am in.lecturing.outside my own nation to give you some.idea of where we are.and how this is happening the first five.minutes of my presentation will be on.that and then we'll switch to a.discussion.of the new um means of uh.streaming digital files via voice.bandwidth even hf radio.hi this is chris vk3am.as this is the first time i've given one.of these talks outside of australia.and as i assume that this is a novel.experience for you.i'd better tell you a little of exactly.where i am before i start on the.technology.melbourne down on the bottom right of.this map.is the southernmost mainland state.capital of australia.and the second largest city in australia.by population.there are five million of us.melbourneites.roughly four times the population of.salt lake city.australia has a total population of 25.million.one 13 of the population of usa.1 13th as you see from this population.density map.the vast majority of us live around the.fertile coast.in a myth you might think of us as hardy.bushmen like crocodile dundee.riding horses on sheep or cattle ranches.the reality is that we're one of the.most highly urbanized countries on earth.since world war ii also we're highly.multicultural.fewer aussies are of british origin.these days they're.increasingly from asia and the middle.east.when you compare the area of the.contiguous usa.states with australia our countries are.about the same.size but our crowded cities are.separated by great.empty distances from here in melbourne.it's 550 miles to.sydney one thousand one hundred miles to.brisbane.and two thousand one hundred miles to.perth.sixteen hundred miles separates us from.auckland in new zealand.our closest english-speaking neighbour.hf radio here takes on an importance.that it retains in very few other.countries.the desert and deserted heart of.australia.is a dangerous place without hf radio.i'm just another urbanized australian.irish origins in my case i live in the.middle of melbourne's eastern suburbs.under the e of melbourne on this map.it's a city established near the mouth.of the yarra river in 1834.at the head of a large enclosed bay a.natural port.our weather is almost the same as san.francisco's.there at latitude 38 north melbourne is.at 38 south.a quick tour of our central city for you.our flinder street rail terminal dates.from 1910.prince's bridge across the area with our.arts center beyond.tourists on the era there.swanson street the central business.district of melbourne.the melbourne town hall built with money.from the great australian gold rush.in 1867..saint paul's anglican cathedral and.collins street.look closely and you'll see folks of.every imaginable race and culture.we take some pride in the diversity of.our present culture and most of us are.embarrassed by the injustices.of our colonial past especially our.aboriginal population.there are 14 000 ham radio operators in.australia.this ugly old coot is on a field day.with his 15 watt am transmitter on 160.meters.squid pole caught a wave inverted.working against a metal handrail at the.beach.like you we had until coronavirus.almost monthly well-attended ham fests.we pick up our junk parts bring it to a.public hall.and sell it to other loonies.six months later those loonies sell.their parts back to us.in 2008 i came to salt lake city for the.first time by train.on the invitation of clint ka seven oei.and gordon k7hfv.up over the sierras from san francisco.in winter.i'd only seen snow once before in my.life.i saw rather a lot that time.it's a very cold night lots of snow i.lectured to your club.about modulated light communication.systems.a glimpse of part of your group 12 years.ago.today's talk is partly by way of thanks.for the marvelous reception those people.gave.up.[Music].and so to the subject of this talk.here's what you see on the screen of a.computer.when you run the easy pal digital slow.scan.tv system actually you can transfer.any small digital file with this.over a voice channel you can send.pictures.text spreadsheets microsoft word.document.whatever easy pal is open source.freeware doesn't cost anything uses the.digital radio mondial multiple audio.subcarrier technique similar to the.digital streaming system used for hf.audio broadcasting to transfer digital.files through any audio bandwidth.transmitter easy pal was developed by.the australian eric sunstrup vk4aes.a mature piece of software only needing.the internal sound card of a pc.for transmitting and receiving no extra.hardware.except an audio interface between the.computer and your transceiver is.necessary.for linux users the qsstv.freeware will also work on this.easy pal digital system.the multiple interleaved subcarrier.technique.going by the daunting name of orthogonal.frequency division multiplex splits the.data stream into a number of low-speed.streams.transmitted simultaneously i won't go.deeply into this it's a bit complicated.except to say that if selective.fade or a static crash destroys part of.the stream.the lost information can usually be.recovered.from a parallel stream where it's.repeated.read solomon error correction coding.similar to the coding system used on cds.to reduce.reading errors of audio disks is also.used.in this easy pal system.depending on hf propagation conditions.you can tweak.the easy pal program to provide the.shortest possible.transmit times using mode.a with up to 57 sub-carriers for.near-perfect propagation conditions.or vhf through to mode e.with around 30 sub-carriers for severe.multi-path.or high noise with more error correction.and longer transmit times the total.width of the multi-sub-carrier stream.can be between.2.3 and 2.5 kilohertz wide.the comparison of results between analog.slow scan tv and the pictures.transmitted by easy.are absolutely striking analog.sstv in the standard martin one or.scotty one mode.transmitted in 110 seconds is.only capable of degraded 320p.definition pictures little more than a.thumbnail.by modern internet standards.easy pal on the other hand produced the.result.on the right in just 90 seconds.completely noise free and with at least.eight.times the definition.the remainder of this lecture which i.recently presented to my local radio.club.has a video of the late eric sunstrup.describing how easy pal was developed.and then i conclude with a practical.demonstration.of its applications on the air.the last option for pictures over hf.radio.is not specifically a slow scan tv.or a video system at all it's.a sophisticated program for digital file.sharing via an audio stream.it can be any digital file jpeg picture.line drawing spreadsheet microsoft word.document text file animated gif.and because it's digital file transfer.the material is reproduced with zero.noise or distortion.this program is the easy pal.software package at present the best.and by far the most mature program.for file sharing on hf radio.easy pal uses the digital radio mondial.drm multi-sub carrier system.which enables the data to be sent over a.narrow.channel say 2.5 kilohertz wide.on hf or vhf frequencies with the.maximum possible.transfer rate of the data.it was devised by the late eric sunstrup.vk4 alpha echo sierra of gimpy.who died at the age of 79 in march 2015..eric was formally vk 30k.of macedon who was involved with the.aviation industry and was a pioneer.expert.software programmer fortunately.in november 2008 members of the gympie.amateur radio club shot a video of eric.explaining the development of this.software.and its predecessor ham pal eric.sunstrup can of course explain it far.more comprehensively than i could.yeah just a bit of my background to.start with but.computing has been my hobby for.since 1973 and i started off.programming at that stage and.i now uh have.programming in the delphi i've tried all.the various languages starting with.visual basic.c c plus plus and.ended up with delti which is a very very.good language you can.program it later level etcetera etcetera.1973.uh i think i was the second person.who started had the amp tool board.operating.a the us got the first one that was with.peter martinez i later collaborated.closely with peter when we made up.another.program which was a digital program that.made a great whir.in the world for four days until the.better one came up with the makeup vodka.i set up the first rtty repeater.in vk3 and i've made.many many programs this is tv pal sst.the multinate psk.pal and i closely collaborated with mate.go moorey of the menace.of mmsstv anyone worked that.slow scan television or know that.program catalogue.anyhow michael he was a japan japanese.chappie and at that stage you're buying.all these programs for about 120.each this is where we both became very.unpopular because we released it as.freeware.and that really upset a lot of people.now the first thing i came across.the digital type of program i've written.now was originally written in linux.and i was able to convert it over to.windows.but anyhow just a big background the.actual core of the program easy pal is a.drm core.that was written in europe.by a lot of very clever people at.university.and then released commercially and it.was used for transmitting of data.over bad telephone lines and things like.that later on there was a very clever.fellow called cisco hb9 tlk.and he was able to turn the code into a.dll which then made mere people like me.able to use the various routines in it.to make up programs like this.so i had a wonderful time making all.these programs up about three years ago.we were struck by lightning fanning in.the in the shack.he's destroyed all the computer gear.destroyed all my life.uh telephones everything went i lost all.the software.and you might say i went into a bit of.depression so i didn't go near.computing or programming again for a.whole year.lost everything all those years and.years of work.so i started up again with this.particular program.easybell and it was probably a good idea.because all the mistakes.i made in the previous programs that i.couldn't change.now in other rectifying that.now what's it's a digital program but a.little bit different to the normal.digital programs most digital programs.run on what they call irq.where you have handshaking between two.people.but it's only limited to two people in.contact like pactor or amtor.so it's not a fun group type of.activity whereas this is because.uh you don't have to anyone can receive.it you can be in a group of 10 or 15.people and they can all receive the.pictures and we'll talk to each other.and digital of course is got the great.advantage that you've got error.correction.which means that it's possible to get a.perfect transmission and that's what we.can get.you can get depending upon how much time.you've got you can have photographic.material.just amazing you can look at the young.girl there you can send that in about 60.seconds.you can't possibly do that on other.means.um a little bit about the.digital lights so good most uh digital.signals if you see them see a myriad of.carriers you might have 16 different.carriers if you look them on a waterfall.which you can i'll show you there later.you'll see the carriers describe their.say carriers spaced about 100 kc.and they were all modulated and they.might be.up to 16 and that will mean that.if they interleave them that if there's.a static crash.or someone talks in the middle of it it.won't destroy the information.so you can still get perfect uh.error corrections or whatever now that.the big difference about this drm mode.compared with all the others.is that where these carriers.are limited to how what bandwidth they.have.and how high a board rate they can.sustain so the carriers get too wide and.overlap.they all mix with each other and you've.had they're gone now this drm is the.first one.that now has carriers very very wide.that all overlap.and you can get huge board rates out of.them and they work they don't.have any problem the way they do that.they use a time lapse.so you only look at one carrier while.you don't look at the other it doesn't.exist.so you get well and this one you've got.57 carriers all running together.57 carriers all the different.frequencies all being modulated.all over that and they're all sorted out.and you'll see that.when i pretend i'm transmitting.something from here over there.that you've got a little set of lights.on the right hand side you can see.all red little over the red and i've got.various stages of the synchronization.to when i start transmitting signal.so what can it do um well.it's a file transmission.type of program and you can send any.file pictures.you can send texts you can send.even exe files and they can be received.at the other end.absolutely perfectly not one single.error in them.it's been used there's so much in this.program it's difficult to.explain all the sequences but there's an.email facility in it.where you can send emails from.say you in the caravan park and you have.no access.to the internet you can use this program.to contact someone who has where you've.set up.the program to access your internet.and he can receive you and through you.send out an email to someone any on the.other side of the world they can then.reply and it goes back to the guy in.caravan park.now this has been used by mars and some.of the emergency traffic.overseas the same with the text messages.because you can have very small text.messages.which have absolutely total error.correction.and very very fast and that's what's.being used particularly in the states.this was rather interesting they don't.do it themselves so.here we are a little back room and.camping.um so i guess.like i could go on and on uh with all.the various things in it i think the.best.thing to do now there's not that much.time is that i'll start sending pictures.and you can sit around close to that.i'll try and explain what's going on.while the picture is in the progress of.being received.unfortunately eric sunstrup's video cuts.out at that point.so i'll have to show you the rudiments.of.easy pal here on my computer but if you.want the full details perhaps turn up on.our.two meter net of a thursday night you'd.be very welcome.every thursday nine p.m on 146.7 the.vk3rml repeater we have our.easy pal net there's usually about half.a dozen guys there to.transmit pictures and show you the.workings of this program but i'll just.give you a couple of demonstrations here.to show you how this works.the audio link between your computer.sound card and your transceiver.is important unless you isolate the.earth of your computer from the earth of.your transceiver.you can get a circulating earth loop.producing hum and rf feedback.through the audio lead the easiest way.of breaking that.audio lead dc path and avoiding the.earth loop is to use.two 600 ohm one to one audio.transformers.to operate at telephone frequencies you.can use something commercial from jcar.but if you want a bit better audio.quality you could use two old audio.coupling.transformers from cast off broadcast.mixers that's what i have here.i've never really bothered with a.chassis it's a bit like the rest of the.mess.that this shack consists of but these.large.transformers give me a good audio.response down to 30 hertz.alternatively you can use a commercial.interface.like this signal link if you have about.a hundred and twenty to a hundred and.fifty dollars to spare.with easy pal audio levels are fairly.critical.so that potentiometer volume control is.necessary.especially in breaking the line audio.level down.to a level suitable for the mic input of.your transmitter.i recently added a small standalone zoom.h2.audio recorder to my interface so that i.could log.our slow scan transmissions okay we've.opened the easy pal program.and there are several windows here.this window the vertical one is a.waterfall display.that shows you the full width of the.audio stream.500 hertz there hertz there.so you can see the multiple sub carriers.forming and.coming down the screen you can also if.you're using.sideband you can tune your radio to be.precisely in the right demodulation area.on this waterfall display above it.this graph in this little black box here.is a frequency response graph.of the received audio.up here this little thermometer.is the bar which tells you whether your.uh digital signal is synchronized.to the demodulator inside the computer.and the actual picture if once to be.received appears in this big.black receiving frame so let's just.activate.an audio file.and you'll see my call sign there has.been generated.in the frequency domain i'll.turn that down a bit.there are three markers there asymmetric.and they indicate um.whether you've got on sideband upper or.lower sideband so that you're.demodulating this correctly you'll.notice that.this is now turned green i'm.demodulating.with synchronization and this is.indicating the level is about right.and this indicates a signal-to-noise.ratio of the signal of about.26 db.down here this little horizontal.thermometer.is indicating uh how much of these.uh picture has been received it's.getting towards the end we should be.seeing a result shortly.there you are.and in the space of something like 50.seconds.uh we've managed to resolve a picture.there that is completely noise free.doesn't matter how much noise is on the.path as long as you demodulate the.numerical components being transmitted.and much much higher definition than.anything that you can achieve on analog.slow scan.a particular problem that you may.encounter with this.is the situation where the thermometer.doesn't reach the top bar.that generally means that this pattern.this easy pal stream is being.clipped and usually this is an indicator.this.red bar not being filled with green.is an indicator of clipping excessive.audio level.more level isn't always better.one particularly neat trick that you can.do with.easy pal is to transmit pictures and.text.on your waterfall and you can imagine.what people using software-defined.receivers and looking at their.waterfalls.would feel when they see your face come.up on the waterfall like this.[Laughter].with this easy pal program we can also.transmit.many pages of text far faster than cw.or psk31 in fact i could probably.transmit an.entire book on easy pal within about.five minutes.i'll show you how long it takes us to.receive.a couple of pages of text.again the waterfall the same.synchronization is indicated here my.level is about right.and this horizontal thermometer.right above the start button is.showing that the uh.the files are being received correctly.no gaps and the text should be resolving.about now.there we go.and you might be able to see easy pal.text guide i've actually transmitted.by radio the guide to easy pal.and it occupies let me see one.two three four.five six seven.eight nine nine or ten pages there.of text that we've just transmitted in.60 seconds.amazing isn't it one particular aspect.of easy pal that doesn't get too much.usage is its use.to transmit very short animated gifs.or movie sequences and in fact i.managed to heavily compress an animated.gif.of myself people who watch this will be.excused for thinking that i'm.excessively using.myself as a model but in this time of.covid what else can i do.i'm the only person available here um.but i'll transmit an animated gif via.easy pal.and this is something that standard.analog slow scan just cannot do.again the call sign there.there's the graph of the spectral.distribution of the transmitted audio.thermometer there indicating.synchronization.and the first frame of the animated gif.is already there appears.very small but you can enlarge it.and there's the full file transmitted.and you'll see in a moment that it will.move.there you go.well i hope you've seen that there are.quite a few options these days for.transmitting pictures.and video on voice transmitters both on.hf and vhf.and i think that just as the 20th.century was the.century where ham radio operators.building hardware had the.edge in the 21st century probably the.software.makers will have the edge certainly as.software defined radios become more.general.with their flat topped iaf responses and.their variable bandwidth at the touch.of a mouse key will see a lot more of.these non-voice modes.being used i hope amateur radio.in association with computers opens up.all sorts of new possibilities that we.can't even dream of.just to close i'm going to use that.seven letter four letter word relating.to ham radio.entertainment it's supposed to be.it's supposed to be illegal on ham radio.but i'd like to show you how.entertaining.a narrow band video can be.just as a test i i'm going to have some.assistance from a man named milligan to.close.this uh this presentation and this was.also.video recorded in six kilohertz.bandwidth.10 9 eight seven.six five four three.two and now the late news.to be precise an hour late.the department of energy say that by the.year 2000.england could run out of arabs.the the arts council are to subsidize.the national youth orchestra to the tune.of beethoven's fifth.uh good news for bing crosby fans tom.jones has broken his neck.and uh pop star d denny who married.mary lee last week are to be separated.someone is going to chuck a bucket of.cold water.and that's all from us for tonight good.[Music].night.[Applause].should be back all right um i guess some.people.will be uh wondering too uh.uh one of the uh things that might bring.up too.is uh how is uh motion.transmitted has been low bandwidth.motion.been transmitted on hf live and all that.i know you had a longer presentation.we could link to at some point yeah well.that last little scrap with spike.milligan.was uh recorded in a bandwidth of six.kilohertz.and while i realized that's pushing it a.bit for hf.uh we are allowed in australia to.transmit eight kilohertz of.bandwidth regardless of mode now that's.difficult to do.on a single sideband normally.and it's even more difficult to do with.vestigial sideband because with a video.signal you need the carrier to be there.to give you the phase.relationships of the different video.components to reproduce the picture.correctly.now very difficult to do with hardware.you'd have to get.a broadband with if and shift the.carrier to one side after generating the.signal as am.and transmit the sideband plus 0.7071.of the carrier on one side of the square.top.bandpass and receive it similarly.but with software defined transceivers.suddenly this whole question becomes.extremely simple.it's just a matter of hacking the.software and you can transmit six.kilohertz.worth of sideband even with a.partially suppressed carrier quite.efficiently so as.defined transceivers become available.that particular type of.reduced definition and certainly reduced.scan rate video.will be much easier to achieve that.picture of.milligan that you were seeing there was.transmitted with six.frames per second picture at um.let me see 30 48 pixels high.and only 32 pixels wide and it just goes.to show how few pixels are required to.recognize a.a human face i i as the.thing moves actually you effectively get.an enhancement of the amount of.information in the picture by the fact.that the image is moving that your eye.is following it.so i suppose the eye is increasing the.amount of information.in in in the received picture although.it's very very.poor in definition the fact that.movement is there.subjectively improves things in other.words it's watched this space i think.ultimately.the way uh moving pictures on hf will be.achieved and it can be achieved with a.within limits.is for developments in.modems that allow the maximum bandwidth.possible that we can do legally on hf.and the development of video codecs.i'm thinking back to the days of dial-up.where we could actually see video.via the real audio video system not very.well but it did work.um over a dial-up line.so there are a lot of developments in.this thing of this area of transmission.of pictures and video.on hf that are slowly opening up cheaply.as a result of developments in.software-defined transceivers okay.um yeah um i'll talk to you afterwards.but with your permission.uh i could possibly link to the.long-form.version of the presentation you did.which is more specific toward australia.but it includes.what i find to be a lot of fascinating.history.of the development of mechanical.television and some of the previous.analog most analog means of.transmitting moving images over hf which.ironically you don't see anymore back in.the early 70s.um when i was first interested in ham.radio.late 60s early 70s a friend who then had.a.the equivalent of an advanced license.for australia dan bin elkin.three ui talented teenager we were both.teenagers at the time we built a.scanning disc television system and.wanted to find out if we could transmit.the pictures.over 160 meters we both had 160 meter am.equipment.so by slowing a 48 line picture down to.four pictures per second and putting up.with the appalling flicker.which now with computer displays of.course you can eliminate because you can.read all the.picture information into ram and hold it.on the screen and.repeatedly scan it so that there's no.flicker but in those days we put up with.an enormous amount of flicker but even.then.we could transmit a rough moving.i suppose you'd call it a thumbnail.image of head and shoulders.sufficiently to recognize the other.person at the other end of the of the.communication link.it's really surprising that not more.people have tried it uh.thing that i notice it's interesting.since some software-defined.internet accessible receivers have.become.available you can listen in different.parts of the world and find out what's.popular.on air in in different continents.in america there's a lot of interest in.high quality audio.extended bandwidth sideband and am.particularly on 80 meters i notice but.in europe.there's a lot of work going on on the.transmission of digital systems.and i don't hear very much of that in.america for whatever reason i can't.quite tell but for example the easy pal.system is frequently used in france.in belgium in england on.uh three seven three three kilohertz.three seven three three uh if you can.get onto that frequency.at dawn or at dusk and european time.you'll find that there are groups there.that are exchanging pictures.and other information with easy pal on.80 meters.and 80 meters really is a difficult band.to do that on because.it's really the band that has the worst.combination of noise and multipath you.could do much better.with these digital multi carrier systems.multi-sub carrier on frequencies that.are either near the maximum usable.frequency with not too much.multi-path like 20 meters or 15 meters.or at the other extreme.one interesting application that we.found here.testing it was that uh 160 meters am.or or sideband using the easypal.ofdm system works extremely well with.ground wave.propagation because ground wave has so.little multipath.at night yes you do get fade but on 160.meters it tends to be slower fade.so there's more chance of getting a.picture through but.the real surprise and this is something.that people may be interested in.specifically is when we tried.ofdm digital slow scan.on 630 meters the new band between.472 and 479 kilohertz.we couldn't get very much signal to.noise there because atmospheric noise on.long wave is inherently very high.but the fact is that because long wave.was principally a ground wave.propagation medium.very little multipath so that the phase.coherence of that multi-sub-carrier.stream was.extremely good in spite of pausing to.noise.so on 6 30 meters on the long wave.allocations you might actually find.unexpected applications for digital.file transfer i hope that answers it.well yeah that's uh.yeah that's a ban that has been.available to us.u.s hams for three or four years now but.is little used as.to my knowledge on the only one on here.in utah.um i might also mention too for those.that are.uh here and make notes on i'll include a.note in the uh.in the comments on the youtube video.there's an interview with between you.and peter barrett in amateur logic tv.episode 24.showing the mechanical television system.that you had constructed for the.australian museum of of uh.of uh motion it's acmi i can't.don't be modest clint there was a lot of.your design went into that particularly.the modulated lid for the.the mechanical television receivers so.there's been a lot of information.passing across the pacific from utah to.here i can assure you folks.right yeah but that's uh one of the few.examples that you can find.of good quality good-looking live.recent uh mechanical television and.exact and.more or less how good it can look of.course the flickering with modern.cameras makes.it difficult to photograph but still.there actually are some incarnations.there have been some recent incarnations.of mechanical scanning for receivers for.specific purposes.um if you look up a a.a taiwan based firm called dina scan.d-y-n-a-s-c-a-n.you'll find that they've designed a.modulated.lead display system they have the leads.mounted in strips on a vertically.mounted.black drum the drum rotates.in the horizontal plane and.there are triads of red blue green so.they can reproduce color.they spin the drum at high speed inside.a perspex cylinder.so you can look at it from all angles it.being round.and it displays three high definition.color television pictures.at 120 degree um three.sets of images at 120 degrees and the.great thing about that is.in an airport where you have people.going in all directions you can put one.of these displays in the middle of the.airport.and people from all sides can read the.display it can be a.news broadcast usually they have weather.advertisements.and of course flight information but.that's an entirely.mechanical television receiver it works.purely on the.persistence of vision of the eye and the.rotation of the drum with modulated.leads on it.the only catch with it and i looked up.their specs.is that those things draw 25.kva to make them work they're extremely.bright.but you can imagine with all of the.synchronized motors to make the drums.work.it drags power like you wouldn't believe.you have to have three-phase power to.drive it.so i've got a feeling they're not going.to last very long they'll probably be.replaced by these new.stationary lead panel systems that they.have for.wall displays slightly bent into circles.and then.suitably scanned electronically.right okay yeah the uh i guess.to some extent what is old is new again.and uh.and it just goes to show the amazing uh.way that the human brain can integrate.moving things.into something that's coherent uh and.you know from little pieces.but anyway um let's see anything else.you'd like to mention we're bush we're.about an hour on the meeting.right now well just that um uh.increasingly in australia uh.there are similarities between australia.and utah in that.we're really a desert a deserted area.and.with very large distances between.centres of population so from that point.of view.i've found traveling around the world.speaking to people in remote parts of.new zealand for example the more remote.you are.the more the distances you have to cover.with personal.communication systems particularly the.more does.hf and experimentation come to the fore.and it's interesting.the the groups that i've found.experimenting with well.like being communication like yourself.um.utah is not exactly the most.connected uh it's a remote part let's.face it of salt lake city is remote from.most other.centres of population in america.and there i find that experimenters like.yourself.like ron jones who's now in arizona.admittedly.like uh gordon.um tend to come to the fore in these.places.in new zealand which i visited last year.the most active experimental groups that.i came across were in dunedin.which is a university town in the.extreme south of new zealand.and invercargill which really is the.furthest.south city anywhere in australasia i.think to go.any further south with um towns with.significant population terror del fuego.is about the only place.around the world so there are.interesting connections.uh between those of us doing experiments.here.and your good selves in salt lake city.well thank you um see um.uh see i've i haven't seen comments.other than ones i've already brought up.but uh it's uh it's uh.good to know about these things and i've.it's.are there any is anyone that you know of.doing work similar to what was uh.done on easy pal recently it's.interesting.when eric sunstrup died in 2015.we i think the source code for easy pal.itself.may have died with him but qss.tv the linux version of the receiving.software has con.continued to have development work done.on it.to the point where qsstv now has uh.constellation graphs included on it so.you can see exactly what's happening to.the signal in terms of overload in terms.of clipping.whether the various sub carriers are.resolving themselves as they should.and i've got a feeling that for the same.signal input somehow the newer versions.of qss tv give you effectively greater.signal to noise ratio and better bit.error ratio.so there is work going on in this area.but the the real thing that will.facilitate all of this multi-sub-carrier.digital stuff becoming more accepted.is the progressive onset of.software-defined transceivers because.with them.you're usually setting your if band pass.at.audio frequencies you can do it very.accurately.you can vary the the bandwidth on the.screen at the touch of a mouse key.transmitting and receiving and that's.that's the facility we've never had.before.and from the point of view of recovery.of data which requires a bit more phase.coherence than.than voice transmission on sideband.that gives you tremendous potential.advantages so.it's going to be an exciting time for.the next 10 years in amateur radio i.think we're going to see a lot of.changes from.hardware based radios to to much more.emphasis on.software and this is where the.recruitment of young people i saw that.there was somebody mentioned kj70xb i.think it was.young people coming into this young.people tend to be very savvy.computer-wise and it's best to encourage.those people to be involved with radio.they may not be.so familiar with the technicalities of.transmitting.rf pa stages neutralization.but they come to the hobby with a great.interest in enthusiasm for computer.science in many cases.and i can only see that enriching the.hobby.over the next few years right.yeah i can speak personally i was.involved in.designing and writing software for a.software-defined transceiver and i got.into it for the purposes of no.learning about it not because i knew.about it that's one way to get uh.get yourself totally drenched in that.sort of thing.and the nice thing about it is you won't.break anything.on software uh if you keep a backup copy.of it.and uh the building blocks are all out.there like the new radio is a good.example.all the little bits and pieces to put.almost any kind of radio want to get law.together are there.they're available in python with uh.minimal hardware.just a 20 dongle and a reasonably fast.pc.is all you need to literally receive any.mode or.picture that would fit in the bandwidth.you can imagine from sideband.from broadcast to satellite weather.pictures.and uh i'm sure that the qss tv would.probably as a gnu radio plug-in.yeah i was very impressed recently.chap i knew bought what was called a.lime.dongle lime and uh.those things can work on the 70.centimeter band with full.amateur television so if you stick the.thing in the middle of a.what you call it a parabolic dish.um it only produces 100 milliwatts or so.but on 70 centimeters you can actually.transmit a tv.on a dongle with just the camera plugged.into it it.it is phenomenal a camera and a computer.of course.right and uh if you were talking about.digital.uh television amateur television the.group that i know is most working on.that is the one around the columbias.columbus ohio region the uh amateur.television.uh uh group of columbus i think atco or.something like that.and uh they actually have like.they actually have i don't know by what.platform.but you can join on the internet as well.as on the air and.they've linked several repeaters around.the country.together on those so it's just not.limited to a over hf of course.it's a digital television uh.terrestrial television uh over your.local area at both standard and high.definition.and you're right the british and the.australians seem to be doing more of.that.despite the lower population than here.in the us.for weird reasons i think there's there.are different emphasis oh.in in the various countries it's.interesting.something that might surprise american.hams is that music.transmission is not illegal here and.funnily enough.when you stop something from being.illegal.fewer people are interested in doing it.um.you know in the old days when we under.our old wildest telegraphy.act which had was.the act until about 1995 i think.uh playing of music on ham radio was.considered to be.very in for dig anybody who did it was.being extremely.naughty well about the year 2000.our local atv people wanted to run.documentaries on their local atv.repeater how to.build a radio etc etc and most of these.documentaries.had music in the background so they.sought permission.from the local p t authorities and.got permission to play music and then.we had our local ham radio news.broadcast.by the equivalent of the awril they.wanted to run.because they were broadcasting people.little bits of linking music.between the the various news items to.divide them.okay the pnt um.later what is it called now the spectrum.management authority allowed that.finally um the spectrum management.authority thought the hell with it.and allowed music as long as it's on.bands that don't propagate.internationally and don't cause an.international nuisance.so ever since then 160 meters there are.people doing.tests of music there's a friend of mine.vk3sl who's a cellist.and occasionally on a saturday night.we'll hear cello solos so.as i say there are different emphases.and different things are accepted in.different ways in different parts of the.world.you however i think are allowed to use.1.5 kilowatts.and we're restricted to 400 so.there's a different um feeling about.personal freedom i think in the united.states in terms of the usage of.of whatever power you want interesting.differences.right well uh anyway.uh i don't want to go too far out in the.weeds but uh.i think it's uh some of the phosphate is.interesting to discuss.and this probably should start wrapping.widening down the meeting uh.you know i just think sure gordon.yourself.and various members of the utah amateur.radio group for the reception.and the traveling around that we did.back in 2008 you treated me.like you rolled out the red carpet and.it was really.nice to see and it's wonderful to be.able.now to take advantage of this new.technology to be able to contribute.something i hope.uh on your side of the world well thanks.well good to have you.and uh and um i i didn't.one thing i didn't introduce chris about.was that um.he's uh if you ever wanted to know.something about early motion picture.films and.uh photograph recordings especially.australian.he's one of the best people there is to.ask about it.um so if you have that interest it might.not be amateur related.you even you even record your own uh.cylinders and now and then occasionally.yes.yeah so um that's from 1912..yeah and i've heard those and they sound.amazingly good.uh some some of them do at least but.for those who have the edison versus.tesla arguments i think uh you know well.tesla worked in one field but the thing.is edison worked in.hundreds so you can't really.denigrate one uh against the other you.really have to look at both of those.peoples.a good marketer too so you know anyway.um i would like to thank you very much.for uh.being with us uh even long distance.and uh i'll uh of course i will edit the.uh.video to improve the fluidity of the.motion.and reduce the dropouts and i will.provide a link to the longer version.of some of the of the video from which.you took some of the excerpts.that includes demonstrations of some of.the uh.other means of image transmission on hf.and radio.going all the way back to the.uh that you that you talk about and are.fond of talking about uh once again.if you want to see uh the disc.uh transmitter and receiver that you.built uh look at amateur logic tv.episode number 24..uh there's a blurb in that where it goes.into a bit of detail and shows that.so i would like to again i would like to.thank you for coming along.and we and personally i hope to see you.again and.if we can uh take your brain on some.other amateur topic on which you can.expound uh maybe sometime in the future.we'll.see you again because uh you would you.even though you weren't electronic.engineer by.by your vocation you.i pretty much you were entirely.self-taught by experimenting as i as i.recall.i actually i my background originally.was.electrical engineering at a technical.college but diploma not degree it wasn't.to a high degree but when i got out into.the workforce.i got into broadcasting on um.in the way of documentary radio for the.local equivalent of your pbs network.and stuck with that so my background is.actually in electronics.and i've used it frequently with the.archival work that i've done with film.and sound recording but.my principal stream of income was.journalism.yes yeah you're a nice enough guy that i.don't think anybody will hold that.against you so.anyway appreciate it and and uh.appreciate you coming.uh being with us this evening let's see.my appreciation to that uh chris uh.i really enjoyed your presentation i'm.fascinated by.what can be done in such a narrow band.in the hf frequencies and i'm going to.try and.do some of that myself maybe quite apart.from that.i'm just fascinated by the fact that we.can actually have.lectures across the world like this now.this was science fiction.10 years ago yeah that's.that's true and thank goodness uh given.the coronavirus.um situation that's it's made.more experience you know i mean if.if we do the right thing even though our.physical world has shrunk.there's no reason why our uh social.world need.wouldn't expand bigger than it ever has.been if we.if we do it right and and uh really.appreciate being able to.uh invoke long-distance uh or dx.uh meetings like this so um.i will remind our viewers and.re-watchers.that uh next month will be.um homebrew night and that is if you can.if you have a project you built that you.can reasonably.tie into amateur radio but we'd like to.see it uh.so the you can send it.tomorrow not right now and we'll update.the web page and send out a few emails.and update the facebook group.but we'll have an email working soon.homebrew.utaharc.org um.that's you know the utaharc.org zworks.domain.send us a description of what it is.you're going to do and pictures.and and the video and what we plan to do.is we will if you have a project.we will invite you onto the zoom.conference where you can talk about it.but we will instead of having you learn.zoom we will.somebody else will play back the video.clips the best we can.because zoom is limited that way or show.the pictures.so you don't have to mess with that you.can just narrate what we're seeing as.that's what happens when you're doing it.live in a meeting.and we hope to see you and your projects.uh next month and um.don't be bashful if you if there's been.many years since you've.uh shown that same project we'll.probably overlook it and forget it.unless it's.you know you know unless you've shown it.too recently.but uh we would like to see what you've.done and as i said before hopefully.you've been really busy building ham.radio stuff.antennas and whatnot since you've been.unable to.get out and about and i think that's.about it thank you everyone and thank.you very much chris.you.

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