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good afternoon everyone welcome to the.webinar.thank you so much for joining us on this.saturday afternoon to.learn more a little bit about this new.law ab-2257.and what it means for all of us i'm.lorena orti schneider the founder of the.coalition.of practicing translators and.interpreters of california.and i'm truly honored and humbled to be.here.in front of all of you today after.having led.an unprecedented team effort.to bring stakeholders together from.almost every corner.of our industry to work towards earning.this exemption for translators and.interpreters.from application of ab5 the gig economy.law.that went into effect in january of this.year.and in restoring the long-standing.independent contractor status.that we have traditionally enjoyed in.our professions.uh i'm happy to say that we've got.almost 300 of you.signed up for today's webinar we had.close to 250 on thursday.and we also have lots of people from.california.no surprise there but we also have some.attendees from other states.throughout the nation including oregon.arizona.illinois and north carolina just to name.a few.next but what i'd like to do right now.is take a look at who's on the webinar.today.and that way you all will be able to.also.see who's who's here uh.let me see if i can just pull that poll.up real quickly here.and launch the poll so that you can.all let us know who you are.are you an interpreter or a translator.or maybe you're both are you a language.company.owner are you a language company owner.who's also a practicing.interpreter or translator or both.maybe you work for a language company.owner in operations or.administration um.[Music].do we have any professors in the house.from any institutions of higher learning.for tni.or if you know none of those categories.define you we have an other if you can.just click on that.and i think you can all.see the poll as it's.moving along here looks like.we have a lot of interpreters and.translators both.mostly interpreters it looks like.so far.you close it up lorena can you uh launch.to share.click to share briefly at the end so.everyone can see the results.oh sure can we see the results right now.or no no.only you only you see it until you click.so once you close it it'll say click to.share results and then.then everything okay gotcha but i.shouldn't end it yet right no we'll end.it whenever you want to end it but then.you have to go that next step of.clicking to share great thank you.votes are still coming in.people are still coming aboard as well.so welcome to all participants coming.aboard still.and i see in the i'm just going to sorry.for betting in if you can't see the poll.it's likely that you're not um connected.to zoom through the app.if you're just on a browser then you.don't see the polls so these are the.there are some limitations to zoom if.you only are accessing it through a.browser.okay we're just going to give it a few.more minutes a few more seconds.here and.close it off and let you all see.who's in here share results there we go.okay so.now that we can see we got over 50 50.interpreters in the house a lot of.interpreters and translators.and then the rest.of the list as it were very good.next.okay so this is what we are going to.cover in today's webinar we're.going to give you a brief description of.the coalition.and the advocacy work that we've engaged.in throughout this past.year we will talk a lot about ab22.ab2257 and how it affects.translators and interpreters and what.the new obligations for all of us looks.like.look like we're also going to talk about.this new referral agency.relationship that's been imposed on the.interpreting space.and we'll bring you a picture of what.all of this means.to the language in industry in general.and especially on a national level what.i'd like to.ask everyone to do today is feel free to.use the chat if you recognize one.another.and want to say hi or what have you if.you have comments for the presenters.but be sure to use the q a the question.and answer.box to ask the questions that you want.answered.we will be answering those throughout.the.webinar so that um hopefully everybody.can.see what the answers are to i'm sure.a lot of clarifying questions about this.law next.okay so one of our speakers for today.includes our lead strategy advocate hans.johnson.without whom none of this is possible he.has just been.amazing an amazing guide on this journey.of constituent-based advocacy proving to.us time and time again.that affecting change is up to each and.every.one of us working incessantly.on our elected representatives to do.right by us.we were able to inspire one another and.motivate colleagues and our friends.and help people overcome their fears of.talking.to their lawmakers and explaining why.translators and interpreters.deserved an exemption from ab5 so with.that i'm going to hand it over to hans.now so that he can tell you a little bit.more about our.advocacy program and about our.presenters for today hans.thank you lorena and i'm pleased to be.joined by a great panel.of leaders in the field of translation.and interpreting.in california and beyond whom i'll be.introducing uh.in just a moment but i spend uh much of.my time.working to spread the gospel of.governance within organizations and to.help.non-profit organizations reach their.full potential as.advocates the example of the coalition.of practicing translators and.interpreters.here in california throughout the past.year has been an inspiring example.of constituent driven advocacy which.is the engine that has made this whole.program.to reform and redress the problems in.ab5.work and to achieve results that allow.for the livelihoods.of the lion's share of interpreters and.translators throughout california.to continue and so i'm pleased to give a.brief overview here.about that journey as we launch into.today's webinar.that dives into the protections that are.actually.earned in the scope and in the terms of.ab2257.next joining me today.in addition to lorena orti schneider a.distinguished translator and interpreter.here in the santa barbara area and.founder and.chair of the steering committee of.coptic.is ben carl a front line translator in.long beach.who was integral to the advocacy and the.education.of state senator lena gonzalez in long.beach his own state senator.as well as to other translators in the.area and in the state.catherine allen a very widely known.leader in interpreting co-founder of.interpreting america.and from her vantage point uh.north of fresno in the sierra has guided.internationally a better understanding.of the.problems that ab5 inflicted on.californians.and the danger that it posed to the.profession beyond the borders of.california while working closely.as a steering committee member of coptic.uh to bring the voices of interpreters.and.all linguists to bear on the.legislative campaign that we launched.and.won in the course of this year darlene.guyer the operator of.a well-known asl interpreting agency.here in northern.los angeles county who has made the.referral agency.model her own and made it work for more.than two decades.based on a deep cognizance of the law.and of the realities of interpreting in.california and how to make the terms of.this law work she's going to shed light.for interpreters in particular about how.the terms of referral agency.can be made functional um and uh not.a headache for you to operate within and.finally bill rivers.a colleague who's come to be a close.advisor.and a real uh touchstone for insights.about language advocacy.bill has helmed uh and guided.hundreds of advocates at the federal.level on how to reach their federal.lawmakers.and the knowledge that he's earned.through his leadership at the joint.national committee on languages has been.indispensable to our efforts.here in coptic to a win and to provide.some national accountability for the.policy decisions.that california lawmakers were making so.it's a real pleasure to have each of our.panelists with us today.the net that ab5 threw.around professionals went far beyond the.original targets.of the law or of the dynamex ruling from.the california state supreme court.in 2018. it was largely aimed.at uh the exploitation of rideshare.drivers and of delivery app.drivers but it ended up encompassing a.far broader scope of professionals.and workers throughout the state next.just to recap on the abc test imposed by.dynamex and.further instituted by ab5.it covers all workers and the obligation.is on the hiring entity to show that.people hired.uh are not employees so it inflicted.a default employee status definition.on workers in california unless the.hiring entity.could show otherwise that the people.were free from the direction and control.of the hiring entity.that the person's work is outside the.usual course.of the hiring entities business and that.the person.is customarily engaged in independent.business.uh operations uh so those are the three.tests.imposed by 85 for proving independent.contractor status.the coalition formed to uh redress.the failure to exempt interpreters and.translators from.the scope of ab5 and it was.from its start a statewide c4.organization which gave.us the uh ability to do an unlimited.amount of lobbying activity not just a.traditional charity.but a c4 social welfare organization and.that allowed us to be.a fulsome voice and an advocacy presence.for the independence integrity and.equity concerns of language.professionals.next so the ab5.crisis brought us together and the need.to have.an heretofore non-existent.voice in sacramento to leverage uh.the power of constituents uh not just.the professional.uh grievances but the real power of.constituent relationships.uh throughout the state in all 120.legislative districts.80 assembly members 40 state senators as.well as the.constitutional officers of the state.they needed to be educated based on the.constituent power.and there needed to be a vehicle there.needed to be a cohesive vehicle.to bring that to bear for policy making.in california that's what coptic.is next so just a recap on.who really makes coptic go it's a.steering committee that reflects the.broad diversity of the professions.uh and it really does represent all.forms and sectors of practicing language.professionals.uh including some representation by.real-time captioners.and people who do voice-over and.transcribing work.throughout the state of california a.real top-to-bottom enterprise from the.sierra.up in catherine's part of the state down.to the san diego border next.uh we really tried to tap into we were.driven by.the recognition of the insight that.constituent driven.advocacy works and is essential to.making policy makers move.in a direction where especially they may.need to be educated.and as a result of in-person workshops.that we managed to complete.before the onset of the covet pandemic.in.instituted precautions that precluded.in-person gatherings we had seven.workshops up and down the state.and we were able to really uh draw.together a base of about 2.000 frontline linguists and allies and.other.uh providers of services and advocates.for the people.for whom linguists do provide services.so expertly throughout california.the coronavirus of course did force.coptic to shift gears and it had a.devastating impact on language.professionals.which certainly aggravated and certainly.underscored.the desire to earn some protection from.the scope of ab5 in.cons in concert with ab5 uh covid 19.set back the language professions quite.uh.significantly and coptic's own work had.to incorporate.advocacy for relief at the federal level.which did.at least on paper provide coverage and.some relief to.independent contractors in a rather.unprecedented move.that both of our senators and all uh 53.of our uh house members excuse me all 51.of our house members listen carefully to.californians in.uh moving that forward next.uh we said thank you i think it was.important to have policymakers recognize.uh as well as our own rank and file that.linguists do extraordinary work.uh facing down some extraordinary risks.um that were only.exacerbated by kovid um and the presence.of interpreters and asl interpreters in.the briefings by policymakers throughout.the covet 19 pandemic.continues to be a teachable moment for.many americans.that uh the work of interpreters.includes asl.signers and is indispensable is.essential work for communicating through.the diversity of californians in.particular.and that was a teachable moment that.coptics certainly sought to leverage.and we're very pleased to have darlene.guyer representing the asl community.with us today as uh as a representative.of the asl community next.uh we didn't weren't able to do.in-person lobbying and advocacy.so we had to shift to highly uh targeted.electronic and zoom-based and.phone-based.efforts to educate and sway policy.makers here.uh mary behar a glendale-based.interpreter.uh shows the pins that she made for.coptic.which are collectors items and if anyone.wants a pin.uh rest assured we have plenty left over.because we were not able to distribute.them.during in-person advocacy so if you want.a coptic pin.please let us know in the chat or drop a.line to coptic coalition ptic.gmail.com that's coalition ptic.gmail.com.next just a reminder that we.did stay on task through the adaptations.of covid.we kept building uh the pressure on.lawmakers.both to educate them about the work that.translators and interpreters do.many people manage to make the.distinction in the minds of lawmakers.and their staff that there is a.difference between translators and.interpreters and elementary distinction.that we're very proud to say i think.we've driven home.in many legislative offices and.certainly advocacy.with lawmakers and their staffs as the.legislative session wore on into august.showed that that elementary's.distinction had been driven home along.with a recognition.that translators and interpreters needed.to have.livelihoods protected through reform of.ab5.next just a reminder that we have.assembly members too.in districts uh throughout the state 80.assembly members in addition to the 40.state senators coptic had.representatives grassroots advocates in.every district and was able to touch.the offices of every assembly member and.senator.in the course of our advocacy efforts.next.it showed that constituency-driven.advocacy works.we brought to bear at least a hundred uh.authentic messages into the offices of.assembly members in one day alone.on june 5th and then going forward.as the legislation went from the.assembly into the senate.um next slide.next slide please.uh we actually were able to bring uh.about 50 i think more than 50 callers.uh on to the line for the senate.appropriations committee.uh in on august 17th that stretched on.for half an hour.and my uh congratulations.and thanks to all the people.participating in this webinar who are.part of that wave.of advocacy from the districts of.members of the senate appropriations.committee.that built on the fact checking of the.claim by.the sponsor of the legislation uh that.somehow there was rampant exploitation.and misclassification amongst.interpreters that really uh.was a fact checked quite effectively by.the coalition it showed real spine.to stand up to a false claim being made.by both the author of 85.and the author of the relief legislation.to do that.and coptic did that with finesse and.with great diplomacy.next uh just a reminder that uh.that work did reach culmination on.august 31st barely.uh two weeks ago in the final day of the.legislative session.with the relief measure passing uh.unanimously ultimately.in both chambers of the legislature and.next.signed by governor newsom last friday.september 4th.a real accomplishment of constituency.driven advocacy that took immediate.effect.because ab2257 was designated as.urgency legislation so its terms not.only are an immediate effect.but retroactive to january 1st so.very important to know that the.protections earned in ab2257 apply.to the entire year of 2020..next it's my pleasure to introduce and.hand it over.to ben carl a frontline translator who's.going to talk more about the extensive.coverage.uh and protection that ab2257 provides.for translators.i just want to highlight as we get into.the protections.as they apply to each category.of linguists operating in our state one.framing fact.before ab2257 there were only.a small sector of protected.safe harbor for the operations of.translators and interpreters in.california.they were left out for the lion's share.of language of linguists in the state.but now in the wake of ab2257 there is.only a small.sector that is not protected so really.this.law this newly earned law has turned the.tables.on the landscape that existed beforehand.it has really.switched the uh zone of non-protection.to a zone of protection and ben is going.to talk more about that particularly.as it applies to translators where that.protection is quite clear.ben take it away yeah thank you hans i'm.going to jump in here real quick i.i really liked uh something you just.said about finesse finesse and diplomacy.and that.really reminds me of of our next speaker.ben carl.uh he's a professional translator and.coalition advocate.and he was relentless in communicating.with his lawmakers and their staff.and he was very active on social media.displaying that finesse.and diplomacy in a very civil and.gracious way.and he even got a clarifying response.from the author.uh of the bill to one of his tweets so.that was a big feather in his cap.so without further ado ben is going to.talk about the.protection for translators now i'm.hoping that all of you.have downloaded ab2275.that you'll be referring to it closely.as you move forward in your practice.ben is going to go over the broad exempt.exemption for translators under.professional services.he will explain what it means the.importance.of of what it means to be an individual.sole proprietor as opposed to a business.entity which was a huge win.for translators and interpreters and he.will explain the.factors that need to be met by all of.you translators in order to remain.independent.he's also going to touch upon the b2b.the business to business.portion of the law section 2276.and explain the parallels that it has.with the professional.services exemption ben.all righty thank you um.so yeah as hans and lauren said my name.is ben carl i'm a french and chinese to.english translator based in long beach.and i'm really grateful for all of you.for taking the time out of your saturday.to be here with us.um and i hope that everyone wherever you.are.especially those on the west coast are.all safe.and are breathing easy with the fires.that are burning.across the western part of the united.states.as well as with the ongoing pandemic.that we're all dealing with.and i'm just you know really sincerely.hoping that you're all well.and safe and i want to thank.lorena and hans for inviting me to be.here.and for doing such great work.i was just a very small part of a very.large operation with a lot of dedicated.volunteers.and advocates working across the state.and.this wouldn't have happened without.everyone's involvement and i'm.very flattered that um that they asked.me to be here.to speak about how this law affects.all of us translators uh here in.california.so i'm going to talk about the two.different pathways to exemption under.2257.primarily focusing on the professional.services section because this is the.most clear cut.and because the other panelists will be.focusing a little bit on the b2b.relationships as well and if you have.any questions feel free to put them.in the q a box and once my.portion is over i can work to address.those with you.and just a disclaimer that um this is.really just this is advice uh for.reference purposes only.um and that if you need um legal or.accounting.advice um to always consult a.professional um and we are all.working very hard to understand the.implications of this law ourselves.and um i can speak for my fellow.panelists that we're really sharing our.our understanding uh but if there's.additional confusion.um you know to consult an expert who is.specialized in your specific situation.and your areas of practice.and so uh without further ado the um.section that we worked so hard for.uh number j or letter j.rather of section 2778 of.bill ab2257 states that professional.services means services.to meet any of the following and then.they name a bunch of other services and.then they get to j.and they explicitly say services.provided by a freelance writer.translator editor copyeditor and so on.it goes on um and so.this is really important because we.fought very very hard for this explicit.exemption and we tried to get it for.interpreters as well and it didn't work.out quite how we planned.but that's um how the cookie crumbles.and my fellow panelists will explain.uh the implications for interpreters um.as classified as referral agencies.um in just a bit um but really what this.does.um and if you read the entire.legislation it means.that translators uh the test that.applies to translators for determining.whether.they are operating under an employee.relationship or an independent.contractor relationship.is a 31 year old test called the.borreloa test.that is very.well documented and practiced in.california.and so what i am going to do now is.explain.as lorena said the six requirements and.several extras.that translators need to comply with in.order to.meet the obligations under this section.um and then enumerate some of the.concrete steps.that we all need to take if we haven't.taken them already.in order to ensure that we are complying.with this law.all right so the professional services.requirements like lauren i said there.are.six um and then in the subsection about.us there are a couple of more and so i'm.going to talk about all of them.quickly now and then go into the.implications of those things.so um the first requirement is that an.individual.is providing services as a sole.proprietor or other business entity.um and this was a big victory on the.part of coptic and all the advocacy that.we did.um because so proprietor.is really very important for many of us.um.and we will go into that a little bit.um the next thing is that individuals.must maintain.a business a business location which may.include the individual's residence.meaning a home office and i will discuss.more about that in a second as well.individuals.or an individual has the required.business license or business tax.registration.in order to provide the services under.the contract.um this is where it gets a little more.complicated and confusing.and so there's uh will be further.discussion on that.next please um.individual has the ability to set or.negotiate their own rates.um you know it's a big um.complaint that a lot of translators have.that they.are often subject to downward price.pressure from the agencies that they.work with.or that they're forced to accept rates.that maybe they think are too low.um and so this is really should be very.empowering that we.under this law need to have the ability.to say.uh this is my rate can you accept it if.not what are the negotiations that will.go into this and that's.really very important uh for all of us.and will hopefully.give you all a little bit of more.confidence and myself as well more.confidence.to charge what we're worth and what we.should be charging.um the next is that individuals have to.have the ability to set their own hours.so your client can't dictate when or how.you are available.if they're not paying you for your time.obviously.you need to meet your clients deadlines.but they cannot tell you when or how you.work and then the sixth one.is that the individual is customarily.engaged in the type of work performed.under the contract.and holds themselves out to other.potential customers.and so what this essentially means is.that you have to advertise your services.um and if you aren't doing that yet.there are some very easy and free ways.um to get you started so next.these are the little extras that are.included in the subsection just.on translators and the other professions.that we're grouped in with.um the work must be performed under a.written contract.um so verbal contracts are a no-go you.need a written contract.a provider is not directly replacing an.employee who performs the same work.i'm at the same volume and at the same.pace.so basically someone can't be fired and.replaced with you.and that's something that the hiring.entity in this case an agency would need.to prove.in order to comply with this law.work is not performed at the hiring.entities business location.there are exceptions to this um because.if you are maintaining a business.location.um nothing precludes you from performing.a task.on site if so required but.the the work cannot be 100.always required at the hiring entities.business location and i'll talk about.that.on my slide about your new and improved.home office.and finally the provider is not.restricted from working with one or more.hiring entity.the people who are hiring you cannot.dictate who you can work for.and if they do they are in violation of.this law.and so there are all these provisions.that we need to abide by.now and you're probably wondering what.does this mean for me and what steps can.i take.in order to ensure that i'm complying.with this law.so next.the first step if you aren't doing so.already is to set yourself up.as a sole proprietorship or other.business entity.um when ab5 passed there were a lot of.agencies and large language services.companies that.were requiring people to either.form llcs or even to incorporate.in order to be able to continue working.with them.and while companies are able to.set any sort of requirements that they.want in order to.set up you know have a barrier to entry.in order to work with them.this law explicitly says that.translators can operate as sole.proprietors so.clients who might have been afraid of.working with you before.for fear of running a follow this law if.you weren't incorporated.that's no longer a factor here you can.be a sole proprietor.and you should advocate for yourself in.that way that being said.um setting up or please go back um.setting up.another business entity could be very.beneficial for your business for either.tax or legal reasons.and you should consult with an.accountant or a lawyer.in order to make sure that the business.entity that you are registered as or.that you.uh set up as is the right one for you.because sole proprietors are not a.separate legal business entity.so if you're doing business under your.own name where i to set up a sole.proprietorship here called.benjamin carl you would not need to.file anything with the secretary of.state or.file a business name with your county.you really are just required to.make sure you're operating with the.correct business licenses.and or permits that are required in your.jurisdiction.if you decide to work as a.super awesome translator uh.as your business name then you need to.you might need to file a fictitious.business name statement with your county.and follow all of the rest are the.necessary publishing and announcement.requirements.and there are uh there's ample.information about that on the franchise.tax board website and another.the next thing you need to do is get a.business license.and business license requirements vary.widely.based on where you live and.what kind of business you're in so.research what you.need to do um for the business that you.are in.um i live in long beach so i just went.on the.long beach city website and i.applied for a business license i filled.out the paperwork.and i got it in the mail it was really.very easy and.uh the fee is nominal and goes to pay.for improvements in your community so.make sure that you are operating with.the required business license.where you live next.um this isn't a requirement but i think.it's a really good idea and it's.recommended is to get yourself a federal.employment id number.um eins aren't required but they.set a distinction between you as a.person and you as a business.if you ever wanted to subcontract or.hire an employee yourself you would need.an ein.and it also allows you to do business.under a number that isn't your social.security number.which is great for privacy reasons and.for separating.uh your personal and your business.finances you can get an ein for free.on the irs website you don't need to pay.anyone for this.and they can issue it to you immediately.so you can get started right away.next um set up a home office.i'm joining you today from my home.office here in long beach.um you have to maintain a business.location if it's not a home office.um it can be a co-working space or an.actual.you know separate office um you can.claim the square footage of your office.on your taxes as a deduction.and everything that you spend to furnish.it and maintain it is also a.business expense um if you are a.contract linguist for.a federal agency like the fbi and you.have to work on site.this law does not preclude you from.doing that as long as you have.your own business location that's very.important.next um the next.thing is holding yourself out to others.which basically means you need to tell.other people.who you are and what you do um so if you.search for me on.google you'll find that i have a website.i have a linkedin profile.i have uh directory profiles with the.american.translators association um but.if you're not ready to do those things.you need to find a way to.announce your services and uh.provide them you know information about.them to other people um and one way that.you can do that.is through google you can.there's a page called google my business.which is where.the screenshot with the little map on it.comes from where you can provide.information about where your business is.located and the services that you.provide.um you don't need to pay for.advertisements but you do need to.hang out your shingle so to speak to.make sure that other people are aware of.who you are.and what you do next.and here's a whole lot of other things.that you can do.to wrap my wrap up my portion um and to.set you off on the right foot.um we are now designated as professional.service providers.when you read in the law professional.service providers it means you.um the professional translator or.professional interpreter.who is providing services in the state.of california.and we need to think of ourselves as.businesses and conduct ourselves.as businesses you should feel empowered.to set and negotiate your own rates and.hours as your own business and your own.business professional providing.professional services.and part of thinking of yourself as a.business is making sure that your.business finances.and your business operations are.separate from those of your person.so set up a business bank account with.that ein that you get from the irs.um make sure that your accountant is.filing your taxes in a way.where it's clear uh that you're running.a business.um there are ample uh resources.available for starting small businesses.all throughout california like the small.business development center.or the various concierge services the.counties run.so use them they're really very helpful.and useful and.most of the time they are completely.free.um i would highly highly recommend that.you join a professional association.uh that suits your work uh and your.goals.um i know that the american translators.association of which i'm a member.did a lot of work to advocate for this.bill.and the other bills that preceded it um.and without professional associations.we would be a lot farther behind than we.are now it's a great way to connect.and to network to spread the word to.be an advocate and to find other.like-minded people who can help you.in all sorts of ways um.help spread the word about this.legislation there will be a lot of.people who.don't know that it's been passed that.don't know it's the law of the land.uh your clients might not know about it.um so make sure that you.uh tell them about it tell your friends.tell your colleagues.it's important that we talk about it and.educate as many people about it as we.can.you want to know this bill backwards and.forwards so you can explain it.when the time comes for you to explain.it and uh.to be educated about what it means for.you.and finally if you feel misclassified.and you feel that your clients aren't uh.complying with this law.there are mechanisms in place to help.you and.um you should avail yourselves of those.resources.[Music].thank you all for your time and for.listening.lorena you're still muted.okay there we go thank you thank you so.much ben.for that great explanation now we're.moving into.the exemption for interpreters which you.will find under section 27.77 i just want to reiterate something.that.ben just made clear is that whenever you.see the term.business service provider in the law.just think.interpreter think you okay because that.can be confusing.um here to ex so anyhow so we're going.to talk about interpreters which have.been placed not under professional.services as.ben just explained about the translators.but.under referral agency relationship.okay there are certain restrictions.that come with that but there are.certain things that are very similar.including that you can be a sole.proprietor.an individual person uh interpreters may.also qualify under the b2b exemption.and to explain all of this to you next.is catherine allen katherine allen has.been an incredible.advocate for the interpreting profession.not only in california but.across the country she's the president.of interpreter of.interpret america which has been an.association that's.been elevating the profile of.interpreting over the last.10 plus years catherine is also the.coalition's co-vice chair and she's just.so knowledgeable.in all the different types of verticals.in which interpreting.takes place especially outside the.traditional courts.and healthcare settings so um.she's going to explain to you a little.bit more about what this all means for.interpreters catherine.that means i need to unmute go ahead to.the next slide.and i was like so i've been sort of.helping to tend to the question that.the question and answer box is it's.going along i just wanted to let most.people.let people know that if there are some.questions we're leaving in there it's.because they're going to need the.response.either we'll wait until we've presented.so that it's clear or.someone who is not me or somebody else.you know who's currently looking at it.can't answer it.and then we're waiting for that person.to become available so.i want to talk i just could wanted to.talk just a minute for framing to think.about what.our what was the status of our.profession in california before.ab5 was passed because i think that can.help give us some context to understand.what has changed because by exemption it.is not.that it just goes back to how it was.before.we do have a new landscape for working.as freelance.interpreters as business service.providers in california it is different.than what it was.before ab5 passed and so before ab5.passed basically the only places that.our.field was regulated at all was in.workers comp.and in court those are the only places.in state law where you had requirements.for interpreters to have any kind of a.certification.you know in order to be able to work or.be hired where there was some kind of.control over it.healthcare interpreting has.certification processes but.those are voluntary processes so far.right there's no.state requirement that you be certified.as a medical interpreter to work in a.medical setting so.and then all of the other areas also had.no legal.oversight nobody could tell a court you.know a conference interpreter what they.did or didn't have.all of that was being dictated and.controlled by our professional.associations by mutual agreement.you know our field is in the.interpreting field is big and broad and.it's more developed in some areas.and more developed than others but in.general in california.before ab5 outside of the court and.workers comp setting.anybody can hang their shingle and say i.am.and and work as an interpreter and it.would depend on who was hiring.you or not so that has changed you know.ab5 for a brief period of time took all.of that away and said you all have to be.employees no matter what.um and that you know obviously the.coalition's view was that was not.tenable for how big and broad and.diverse and why this field is and so we.fought for this exemption.but the exemption actually changes our.status quite a bit and i think in some.ways.there may be some short-term pain but.some long-term gain from that.so there's basically two ways for you to.for us to be able to continue to work as.an independent contractor or now.business service provider.as interpreters and one is that we will.contract directly with a referral agency.and under this law language services.companies have been put.under the referral agency category.so when we talk about referral agencies.we are talking about.sort of a more traditional relationship.with a language service company so we.can contract.the way we have been contracting or we.can contract.directly as a business to business.relationship.so these are the two ways that if we.aren't employed somewhere.you know as an employee that we can.continue to.work as independent contractors next.slide please.however it what has changed is that.there have.been uh sort of there has been a.certification.um component imposed or requirement that.has come into play.and also to provide context i would like.to say that i think the.the most eye-opening thing for me in.this whole process and and which is.something that i've.you know worked on for many years is the.fact that the world does not understand.our profession.is dangerous for our profession and i.think we spent so much of our time.in coptic just simply trying to help.legislators.understand why we weren't the same as.someone as a teacher or even a salon you.know someone who's a hair care.person where you could just say well.show us your license show us your.registration so is your certification.and we can't do that because less than.15.i think that's the correct stat and you.guys can correct me.of less than 15 percent of interpreters.in california.are certified or have access to.certification right.so we fought really hard against having.them just say.certified interpreters can work as.freelancers and no other interpreters.can work as freelancers and the reason.why we fought hard for that.is because the certification is only.available.in court and in california there is a.you know.legacy certification in workers comp and.in healthcare and that's.it there is no other certification.process outside of sign language.interpreting.to the excuse me for the for the you.know for sign language interpreters.those are the only domains.where you can get certified and and.only a few languages only a very small.number of the hundreds of languages.spoken and interpreted in california.have access to that certification.however.this law i do feel like a good.recognition.of our professionalization that this law.now imposes.is what it says is if certification is.available.in your language pair and where you are.working as in.in court or health then you need to have.it.to be able to call yourself a freelancer.and in order.the way that they have recognized what.certified or registered means.is they have they first they have first.recognized the bodies.that provide certification in our field.most of which are listed here.and they have also created a pathway for.other agencies.or state departments in california to.administer a certification.test and they have opened a pathway for.other testing organizations or agencies.or educational institutions.to also put forth a certification.process and have that be approved by the.state.so our field will be allowed to evolve.and hopefully and will need to be.involved.in that process next slide please.so the previous slide showed.that maybe that ab2257 actually does.recognize and protect.the hard work that certified.interpreters have.done in order to be professionalized and.become certified.but it also recognizes that the majority.of interpreters.provide interpreting services and.languages and in.areas that do not have certification so.if you.interpret in an indigenous language if.you interpret in a language of lesser.diffusion if you interpret.in a you know non like ukrainian to.english and there is not certification.available you can still.work as an interpreter as a business.service provider as a freelance.interpreter.um and that's uh you know so the the law.kind of threads this needle of wanting.to boost up those who.have professionalized and have.certification available but it also is.not.going to wipe out the ability for the.majority of interpreters to continue.working.and so the way that i read the second.one for example.is if you know if you work primarily as.a freelance.interpreter in the education setting.there is no certification in educational.settings and so you would.be allowed to continue to work go ahead.next slide.so there is sort of detailed language.about what certification means and this.is a new.you know sort of a new element that we.need to deal with in california.and it's essentially lays out you can.see the language here that i was trying.to describe.you know as i introduced it if there is.an applicable.i think we're going to be talking this.about the three a's if there is an.applicable.kind of registration or certification.available that's recognized by the state.either administered recognized by the.state.and it is available for the type of work.being performed.which means is it legal interpreting is.it medical interpreting is it conference.or business interpreting.then the cert the service provider.that's us the interpreter has to certify.to the referral agency the language.service company.that we have that appropriate licensure.so it's not going to be enough just to.put it on your resume.i'm a certified interpreter you have to.actually show proof of it.and the uh language the referral agency.your language service company has to.keep that on file for at least three.years.so we're beginning to be more regulated.right we're going to have to be showing.proof of our.skill set and just like many many other.professions.um so what is a little bit ambiguous in.this.is type of work and but i do believe.that.you know we we do i mean again this is.not legal advice and i will defer always.to lorraine and hans on this but.the reading of that is you know type of.work is your.area your specialization you're.interpreting specialization.but the edd will be interpreting this.bill and writing regulation and we will.be alongside with them.you know helping to provide input into.that process.um go ahead next slide.okay so the the second so that's the.whole first pathway.this is that that all is applying to if.you want to work as a freelance.interpreter and contract with language.service companies.as a freelance interpreter and or as a.sole proprietor right and again correct.me anyone if i get this these terms.wrong however you can also provide an.interpreting service if.you have incorporated fully as a limited.liability corporation.and then you can provide interpreting.services.directly so i actually am incorporated.as an llc.under under an llc called chatterbox and.so i.can provide services directly as an.interpreter.under my business name and have be hired.and.by another agency that wants my services.um what's unclear to me and again i will.let uh darlene and.and lorena address this later you know.is.do does certificate is that.certification requirement still.standing if you are a business um.or can i work without the certification.and so that that to me i think is still.yet to be seen um and this also applies.to trainers so those of us working.as trainers we can also have a training.business and provide services directly.uh next slide please so.i'm closing out here with what are the.implications the upside and the downside.i think the upside is that many.interpreters can now continue to work.as they always have and to me i'm.personally aware of the many.companies that have pulled completely.out of california due to ab5.i've spoken directly with many larger.agencies around the country who have.standing contracts and money waiting to.work with indigenous interpreters.and they can't because they were not.able to because of.hp5 so now they can come back those.interpreters can be hired.many of the interpreters you know who.had contract work with agencies.will prob hopefully be able to have that.work again.there is a pathway back and and of.course the limitation will now be.for anybody who is working for example.as a medical interpreter without.certification but certification is.available to you.either you will need to work as an.employee.or you'll have to get your certification.right.so now we have a really strong incentive.for more interpreters to acquire.existing certifications i think that's.excellent that's really good news for.our field we're going to have some.growing pains.um because certification programs have.to ramp up.and you know get past this covid bump.we've had but i feel like if we manage.this well.and educate ourselves well and promote.and support each other.well this is going to help us continue.to professionalize our field and that's.really good for everybody.and then the downside if we go to the.next slide.um we do you know there are some.downsides and some things we need to be.watchful.for um you know we've got a lot of.interpreters.currently working in medical and legal.settings.that you actually can just as of the.finding of this bill.well of av5 as well who just can't work.there until they get certified.and you know that's and that could take.time.we did ask for a grace period um you.know just to give some time for people.to get through that process.and we weren't given it so as of now you.know if you don't have that like for.example.i am occasionally called into the courts.in my rural area and i will.i will interpret and get provisionally.certified you know.or qualified by them and my.understanding is that they can no longer.do that unless they actually hire me as.an employee.um you know i couldn't do the kind of.low-level kinds of assignments that i.would take.periodically here um i do think that.some language service companies may just.avoid hiring.in some of the most in-demand language.pairs where there's certification.involved until we see how regulation.plays out.and there is also in that new language.about people being able to apply to the.state to become certifying entities.there's danger there because we've.worked hard in this profession to move.away.from language companies for example that.you know create an in.an unvalidated test and put it out there.and call it certification.you know we've really worked hard to.move away from that and we may.see that window open up a little bit so.we'll need to be.vigilant and continue to work on this.last slide please.but so just to sum this up um i would.say.you know is it perfect no was it perfect.before.no but it is a huge step forward we do.have a way.in the side this big broad diverse tent.that we work in as interpreters.we have preserved the ability of the.majority of interpreters to continue.working.um and but does this also these new you.know.um limitations and regulations and.oversight.will this help our profession progress i.think it well so.you know as ben said i think ben i have.to go look at your last three words you.know that you had that you said.um we need to educate and continue to.empower ourselves.and and to continue to professionalize.so.that is what i have for now and then.we'll you know answer additional.questions.during the question and answer.great thank you so much catherine for.that that was not.an easy section because i as you can all.see.it was much more complex than the.translators exemption.section uh so moving into the next slide.here.we are now going to get even a little.bit more complex.and talk about the um.sorry that's my timer there talk about.the.2278 section which is this new referral.agency exemption much more complex than.what catherine just presented but again.some parallels in that individual.interpreters can be.sole proprietors and not just business.entities.the certification piece that catherine.just expressed is also a part of that.for.referral agency and interpreter.relationships.and then there's this whole question.about what ancillary services.means so to to clarify.and to hopefully shed some light on this.section that.is still pretty you know new to us is.darlene guyer now i just want to say.that i met darlene.earlier this year at a chia conference.down in san diego the.california healthcare interpreter.association conference.and catherine and i had just presented.um.a session on ab5 and she came up to me.at the end and she mentioned and she.said that she was curious about.the bill that i had mentioned was in the.works that.was going to classify interpreters under.referral agencies.and what she told me was that her.company had survived a few audits.precisely using that.referral agency model and while i was.intrigued.about it i didn't really think too much.further into it because i was.very much tracked into getting.interpreters under the professional.services exemption but then when it.became apparent.that that was just not going to happen.you know for us.i reached out to darlene to learn more.about you know her her process and her.her journey and so here she is today.to share her expertise with you as both.an.asl interpreter and a language company.owner.and hopefully you will get some tips as.to how to.you know adapt to this new um piece.that's called referral agencies darlene.okay my first slide please.um first of all thank you and it's my.honor to address you all.and to be involved with everyone uh on.this webinar today.um i want to clarify uh about.accommodating ideas we're a language.access solutions company so we.do a lot of asl interpreting but we also.provide caption writers we also provide.spoken language interpreting.and translations so i just wanted to.make sure that everyone.understood that we we're working with.a lot of the different classes of.uh of individuals who are are now.covered under this law.so okay now let's get into it um.ab2257 what tests are applied you've.already heard dynamex.and barrello uh mentioned uh.understanding the underpinnings of both.of these court cases.which were around previous to av5 and.ab2257.is inten is integral to knowing what.applies to our marketplace and when.when you understand these rulings you.understand the goals moving forward.leveraging legal structures that we've.been talking about.like sole props or llc's.having business licenses and securing.tax id.numbers these are crucial to fitting.into the larger.legal framework that we're now faced.with.the findings in borreloa and dynamics.serve as foundations to inform.which legal structures you need to pay.attention to.you have to be able to defend your.business position.to people who have no idea what your.industry is about.many of our clients don't know how we do.what we do.you can't expect governmental agencies.to recognize industry-wide.who what where or how we do what we do.they won't so we have to leverage.legal structures to make our position.crystal clear.and ensure understanding when you look.deeper into these foundational cases.and you should understand that you see.there are.three main points to be considered here.the independent contractor.versus employee distinction initially.was adopted.to limit employer liability for an.employee's wrong flags.employees make mistakes and the employer.pays.if you're not the employer you limit.your liability.employees cost more so there's also a.temptation to engage ics.for purely financial gain this option is.very attractive.to any business person secondly.the powers that be have been trying for.many years to hold companies responsible.for their ics in one way or another your.predominant avenue is audits.audits by the edd workers compensation.even federal state county or city.contract audits.audits by my customers for close to 30.years my company has been audited time.and time again.i for one am grateful for guidance.regarding.how i convince any auditor how can i.convince.any auditor that my ics are not.employees although i've successfully.navigated.many governmental and customer audits at.times i did so by engaging seasoned.a seasoned business attorney if i can.hold up one thing.that helped us to be successful it was.and will continue to be.documented compliance with the rules.whatever they are and a thoughtful.examination of our business.relationships.does everything fit perfectly into the.frameworks provided.oh hell no we at accommodating ideas we.applied.a complete review of compliance items.and then used a simple yes no test.you either comply or you don't then we.dissected.all non-compliance points an applied.policy to bring them as close to.compliance as we could.and then trained every employee staff to.understand compliant behavior.when interacting with ics in the past.to some degree the powers that be.didn't know what to do with ics who.didn't have legal structures in place.like business license certifications.um workers comp or other insurances.paid unemployment or disability or even.how they fit into laws like the family.leave act now in ab2257 they do.even though it's not implicit in the.statute don't underestimate the true.goal.to make someone along with the ic.responsible for social welfare programs.like unemployment and workers comp this.is a reflection.of the undercurrents that provoked the.passage of ab5 in the first place.governmental entities want employee.status it's just.easier to deal with the job of the ic is.to hold up.how you or we are independent.dynamex varelo and ab2257.help define what that looks like i'll.say it again.it's up to the ic to establish.themselves.as as a separate and distinct entity.just as it is for any agency or business.that they may work with in support of.new regulations.um can you go back a slide.thank you um in support of the new.regulations.some main points you must focus on and.that then actually.talk a little bit about was how do i.demonstrate independence.from the referral agency written.agreements between the.referral agency and the ic compliance is.key.ics have to provide any and all.requested documentation.so do referral agencies.it's not it not only helps your.relationship with the referral agency.but it provides verifiable proof for.audits.of the separation between entities.demonstrate professional prowess as.already has been mentioned get.credentials engage in professional.development.demonstrate business practices that.establish you as a separate business.out in the marketplace get a license.advertise maintain.insurances file taxes as a business.entity.yes sole proprietorships are recognized.and third.you can never forget taxes an additional.factor is.governmental income and revenue finding.and.the finding of an employer employee.relationship generates.more taxes and simplifies tax collect.our collection.um i've got a website here in my second.slide.that i'm providing for your reading.pleasure i think it's before the current.slide that's.up it's got a um.a web link on it um the details about.the cases.that are mentioned in this slide have.been exist in existence for many years.so you can go to this link and you can.also.uh get more information on these.uh cases okay um.let me see next slide please.yes how do we get thrown in with dog.rumors and walkers no disrespect.intended.pool guys and picture hangers i mean.i'll take the exemption anyway i can but.really.we need to brainstorm and get creative.regarding how we fit.up and coming language access.professionals into this.framework our task here is to to.determine who we are.in light of these new definitions is.your business structure.that are defined as a b2b a referral.agency.service provider and so on.how does your business relationship fit.into the framework provided by ab2257.or barela and some cases dynamics my.company is best defined as referral.agency.we engage service providers.interpreters the key word here.is business entities service providers.are business entities and service.providers provide the actual service or.interpreter.referral agencies are allowed to refer.and perform other.ancillary services let's talk about that.for just a moment.this remains to be tested and determined.but for now.we assume this means agreement slash.compliance with contracts between.us between the referral agency and the.service provider.and then other tasks related to.referrals.from where i sit at this time.this encompasses other legal mandates.like hipaa.corporate policies and procedures unique.to the client.our agreement between you and me between.the referral agency and the service.provider.outlines what we agree to and and will.abide.by the rules via our contract that's my.understanding at this point.so you've got to be a separate entity.and then.we're going to decide on the terms of.our agreement.and within the terms of that agreement i.think other.legal mandates are going to be.encompassed again.it remains to be seen as it stands now.pre-certified asl interpreters will need.to be members of the national.organization the rid the registry of.interpreters to the deaf.and then the new certifying body the.center for the assessment of sign.language interpreters castling.will likely be included under the other.certifying body.language in catherine mentioned that.other certifying organizations uh like.the cchi.uh the nbcmi uh who administrate.medical certifications um you know.those are certifications if i was a.pre-certified interpreter i'd be going.for those certifications.um you know they're going to bolster the.requirements.to be quote registered if there's not a.certification.that you can attain like the national um.or you know one that may not be provided.for a particular.language if up and coming asl.interpreters can get.an eipa an educational interpreter.certification i know that.they don't necessarily have that in the.spoken language realm.but in the sign language interpreting.realm there is.an educational certificate um that that.would be helpful too.sign language interpreters are going to.need the test test.test take any and all tests.available to get credentials you need.documented.proof that you're truly a professional.in the field.ab2257 makes it clear that the.responsibility for compliance is.squarely on the shoulders.of the ic your credentials are a part of.the documented compliance needed.to maintain ic independence.referral agencies must verify.credentials.keep them on file for three years next.slide.the irs and the edd are still forces to.be reckoned with.their rules still apply there's lots of.other laws.that still apply it appears for us.as a referral agency that barrillo is.the test.that we need to apply uh to prevail.in the many audits that you know we're.gonna undergo.we've been as in compliance as we could.be.i've been working with my attorney all.along for.many years unfortunately.we drive our isis crazy with.documentation requests for our files.i so apologize but we must have it.we have to have it for the numerous.audits that we're always undergoing.i've revisited this issue periodically.through the years.with and without my attorney it's a.continual process.as is litigation and whatever unfolds.is going to affect our marketplace.industry-wide.with ab2257 we have more definition.in this framework so it's up to us how.we're going to work together.and solidify our relationships in a way.that's compliant.and that is as standardized as we can.get it.only then will we send a firm message.to any agency that challenges our.industry.relationships that we actually are a.profession.that has an embedded structure in.society.yeah folks we gotta stick together.so my contact information uh will be.included.and if you want to send me an email or.call me up.please do thank you for listening.great thank you so much darlene for.explaining that very complex section and.for making yourself available to.people who need further clarification.okay well.moving right along here next slide is.the national viewpoint you know ab5.started here in california.but it has spawned multiple similar.bills in other.states of the nation there is a movement.on a national level as maybe some of you.know called the.pro act um part of the reason.why we fought so hard and why we founded.this coalition was to get this exemption.here.now before it.could be the law of the land everywhere.else and so.um here to talk about what it means.for everybody else is our next speaker.uh bill rivers he's also known.to many as america's language lobbyists.bill has been with the coalition since.the beginning.of this entire struggle he's been.validating our approach.to educating lawmakers and he even wrote.a white paper.on the realities of the.language service industry on.certification.and that white paper reached the author.of ab5 and ab2257 as well as.all 120 lawmakers and their staff.so he is here to provide a bigger.broader picture of the implications of.this new movement.towards classifying all employees or.workers rather as employees.and he will also offer some.recommendations of the work.that as an industry we still have to do.together.in order to protect our independence.bill.thank you lorraine and i i want to.commend everyone for uh for doing this.in the middle of a.a busy saturday and i've been watching.the chat.and the q a your participation is really.important and you're asking a lot of.really good.and really tough questions um and what.that shows.is is and i'll get it get a little bit.more into this what it shows is.this is a new law it breaks new ground.in many ways it doesn't quite take us.back to the pre-dynamics days.for translators and it certainly doesn't.for interpreters so.we still have a lot of work to do.collectively as.the language enterprises translators.interpreters.language companies and then clients in.california in understanding how this.will be implemented.i want to thank hans johnson and lorena.ortiz schneider for.their work in leadership and for.organizing the webinar and for darlene.catherine and ben for being a.co-panelist today.as i said this is a new way of doing.business so.one of the big takeaways that we've you.know spiral learning i'm a former.educator.um that we've tried to instill is that.um and all of us have tried to instill.is that we need to um we really do need.to.educate ourselves and to stay involved.it is better than dynamics and ab5.there were no exemptions under dynamex.and ab5.and so now we do have i think a very.clear exemption for translators.and and some um some.pathways for interpreters both under the.b2b and.the um the referral agency model.there's a strong push to certify.wherever certification is available um.i've worked closely with cchi over the.years.on the medical certification in earlier.part of my career with the national.center for the state courts.firm believer in certification but.realistic about.the possibilities of developing language.specific.certifications in languages of lesser.diffusion.and in domains where we may not see as.much volume.so so having that exemption for.where where certification is not.available is important.um we probably will see more.certifications developed.that's also one of the one of the gray.areas.in the law is that um.not necessarily gray area but it's an.ambiguity that'll have to be resolved.going forward.is there is a provision that allows.entities.and educational institutes of higher.education recognized by the state of.california to develop.certifications now to be really clear a.certificate from.um cal state monterey bay is not the.same as a formal.occupational certification and i think.that's another area for.for work so there again a lot of a lot.of.areas where the legislative legislation.legislators had.an intent now it has to be interpreted.by.the commissioner of labor by the workers.compensation commission and by the edd.um the the.we're gonna see a lot of different.approaches to this some interpreters.um will go all the way to the b2b and.set themselves up as.a sole proprietor or an s-corp or an llc.some agencies will be comfortable with.that some agencies will be comfortable.with referral.model and some agencies may not be.comfortable at all with working in.california.we're going to see a lot of variation.and that depends on.their tolerance of risk and their.ability to.to to manage the law going forward.we're going to also see next steps um a.regulation.i'm sorry my audio intermittent um how.am i sounding lorena.okay here's the one bill you're good.someone just popped up on the.on the on the chat um zoom is.great when it works and i've got two.kids at home doing.remote schooling all day long and my.wife and i now work on zoom all the time.so.um it's great when it works what can you.say um.a regulation will need to be written and.coptic i'm sure will be working on that.and mobilizing.the public that is stakeholders to.comment on that regulation when it is in.draft form we have that right.under california's administrative.procedures act as.as as stakeholders as members of the.public in california and stakeholders.elsewhere.to comment on the regulation and to try.to.influence it because there will be.definitions things that are.somewhat vague in the law where where.edd or another agency will set out to.define.what exactly they think the law means.and how they're going to.to implement it now to come to the.national step stage.the there is a national movement to.and and i think darlene was talking.about this as well.spurred by a number of different factors.states want revenue and we see this in.particular in the great recession and.we're going to see it now where.unemployment insurance.funds have been depleted and states will.want to get more unemployment insurance.out of the.out of their employee out of employees.in the state and when you're an.independent contractor.filing under a schedule c you don't pay.unemployment insurance you don't pay.workers comp.but states will want that money there is.a push.to provide more social benefits to.individual americans by making them.employees.now we can argue about whether that's.going to work or not but that pushes out.there.i would point out that in in my state.being an employee.means basically all you're guaranteed is.unemployment insurance and workers comp.the threshold for in the state of.maryland for an organization to be.required to.offer health care a group plan.is i think 50 employees at least it was.when i was running an organization here.and that group plan you the employer is.not.required to pay anything into it so.we're still a long ways from creating a.real social safety.net and this bill while it does help.um especially for marginalized workers.low-wage workers exploited workers.especially in dangerous occupations you.think of home health aids.we think of day laborers on construction.areas which have been subject to abuse.in the past.this bill will help those folks and who.really do need workers comp.and really do need unemployment.insurance we all need unemployment.insurance as it turns out.it will help those but but it doesn't.necessarily.lead to everybody getting health care.and the pension and a 401k and all.and paid family leave and all sorts of.other things.so the national level there is a push.the pro act is mentioned here that's the.protecting the right to organize act i.forgot to mention i don't have slides.and i apologize for that.the protecting the right to organize act.which is house resolution 2274 in the.united states house of.house representatives it passed the.house and was sent to the senate.the the pro the pro act will guarantee.that everyone who.is working whether they are working as.an independent contractor now or as an.employee.has the right to organize they would be.considered employees.solely for the purpose of union.organization under the national labor.relations act.it's the first major piece of.legislation that has passed.in what is now called the workers bill.of rights and there will be others.now i will also say as lorena mentioned.there are states that are looking.closely at.ab5 at the dynamex court decision at.ab2257.new jersey new york connecticut the.democratic legislature in maryland once.once there's a new governor we have a.republican governor here at the moment.that may or may not continue because.he's term limited but the.legislature will be democratic it's a.super majority democratic legislation.here.in new jersey a bill similar to ab5 in.fact one that was almost word for word.aligned with ab5 was pulled from the.legislature in in trenton because.of some of the lessons learned in.california the.um the the decrease in the number of.practicing interpreters.the difficulties that freelance artists.and writers were having making a living.because they.under ab5 i believe there was a very.severe.very strict limit on the number of of um.pieces a freelance writer could write.before they would be considered an.employee.and that bill was pulled in new jersey.because of some of the lessons learned.now they'll be looking closely at ab2257.and seeing how to adapt that.to their context as well now.what does this mean for you wherever you.are listening to this uh.this this webinar um number one.join the professional organization i.cannot stress that enough.the value of if you are an interpreter.or translator of being part of.the ata and the ata has a vibrant.interpreter division.the assistant administrator of the.interpreter division is um.lorena rt schneider so um very vibrant.and.and vital interpreter division join the.ata join.chia join um the northern california or.the southern california chapters of the.ata.join najit so if you're a judicial.interpreter.you get incredible networking incredible.value out of being a.community part of a community incredible.professional development including ceus.from.participating in the events and when the.time comes to advocate these.organizations are ready and.will help organize you in your advocacy.because.we're we're paying attention um to these.bills.and so i really can't stress that enough.the other thing that that all of these.organizations do and.and whether it's the joint national.committee for language which i had the.privilege of directing for eight years.ata najit um chia.the association of language companies we.all work very hard.to make our profession visible there was.a question in the chat about.why cis does not have translator.interpreter.listed as one of the professions.uh one of the occupations when you apply.for citizenship.even though we estimate there are about.150 000 translators or interpreters in.the us that's a pretty.um it's it's not a that's a good number.of folks doing this work and the answer.is because.first off the federal government is huge.and just because.translators and interpreters are.recognized by the department of labor.doesn't mean the department of.homeland security is necessarily going.to have them officially recognized.either and.i could go on for two hours about how.that might happen.but it's also that people don't know.what we do.if you're if you're an asl interpreter.if you are.um a medical or a judicial interpreter.there's maybe more awareness sometimes.conference interpreters because.you're physically or visually present.when the language service is being.provided but even then.you know the ethic of that is that you.you don't make yourself part of the show.right i mean i i was a practicing.conference interpreter.and community in church of russian.english english russian in the late 80s.and early 90s and that was drilled into.me.it's you're not the star your job is to.facilitate the communication facilitate.the access.and a lot of people just don't think.about language as even though it's.a 50 billion a year industry in the us.people don't think about it and so we.have a constant need to educate.lawmakers and say hey wait a minute.um in a state like california.um in in you know which been now.majority.non-white where the schools are now.majority english learners.in the us where more than 70 million.people.speak a language other than english at.home and there are five languages spoken.in my household.my wife is an armenian-american um.and that that.diversity is not just here and i think.it's a tremendous and wonderful thing.but but meeting the challenges of that.diversity requires what we do.and so we have to tell our stories.nobody's going to tell it for us.nobody's going to advocate for us so we.have to do that and that's the value of.coptic.of of chia of ata and all the other.organizations.involved and with that i'll turn it back.to.lorena wonderful.thank you so much bill.yes you know this fight started at about.this time last year but.honestly it's not over uh the coalition.has been.you know that that that association that.has been able to.bring in everybody in our in our.professions both practicing.uh translators and interpreters as well.as language companies.um you know with whom we we have a.symbiotic relationship whether we like.it or not.uh and i think our work here has just.begun.um we're probably going to take a little.bit of a break because it's been an.intense.year as i think all of our panelists can.agree and especially hans and bill.on the advocate side but i hope that you.um stay with us and help participate.moving forward on the different fronts.that.we'll be having to.continue to you know deal with lawmakers.and and help them understand what we do.and how we do it.um we are practically to the end.of our program here nick if you want to.skip the next.slide i think we can just.go into the close if any other any.participants have.something to say uh additional thoughts.hans i think we've answered a lot of the.questions in the q and a.chat box it looks like we've answered.about 66 or.more questions if you do have further.questions please email the coalition you.know where to find us.on the slide that you see there are the.different uh social media platforms that.you can.uh go to but um with that i just want to.thank everybody again for taking out.you know a couple of hours out of their.saturday.and to join us and to learn more about.this hans would you like to.uh kick it off by closing it up and if.anybody else.presenters want to say something please.do.i just want to commend uh all of the.participants but especially our.panelists.for the work to clarify the terms of.what has been earned.through months of advocacy and to uh.reinforce that advocacy is.not an ending uh prospect where we can.wipe our hands like a character in a.commercial for cleaning products and say.job is done.we have continuing advocacy to do to.inform lawmakers and their staffs about.the realities.of linguists work and the people served.and that continues at the federal level.so be tenacious.be tenacious with your representatives.be tenacious with our two u.s senators.and progress will be gained through.doing so.advocacy does not end but it does pay.dividends.this is katherine i just like to say uh.you know.we see all the questions we are saving.out these question and answer boxes.we've had lots of questions about will.we be putting out you know checklists.for how to stay in compliance.other materials i'm going to speak on.behalf of the organization to say.yes you know we will be putting out.additional materials that will help.people.understand this law i see even even with.an hour and a half of a webinar.it's we are all struggling just with.these basic terms.so it is new it's going to take time so.yes we will.follow us on social media we will.absolutely and you know sign up for our.email.alerts and we will be providing written.information and we were going to.continue to work to help.help everyone understand this law.it's this isn't the end of that at all.so if you didn't get your.question fully answered if you're.walking away with some confusion.please continue to reach out with that.you know reach out directly to us so we.can help you.you know in that learning curve because.believe me i understand that learning.curve.just makes my head spin and thank you to.everybody.everybody for attending until my fellow.you know coptic members.great okay well.with that i think we'll close this out.everybody have a wonderful weekend.and again stay in touch ask questions.we're here to.help you all out bye-bye.

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