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good afternoon and welcome to today's.webinar machine guarding minimal safety.distance for guards and present sensing.presented by each us today new equipment.new equipment digest in machine design.my name is Stephanie Valencia associate.editor for EHS today and in a moment.I'll be turning things over to our.speakers I would first like to thank.Merle for sponsoring this afternoon's.webcast before we begin let me explain.how you can participate in today's.presentation first of all if you have.any technical difficulties during.today's session simply hit f5 to refresh.your webcast council if you need.assistance solving calming issues please.click on the Help button below the.slides we welcome your questions during.today's event just type your question.into the question window on the left.side of your screen and hit the submit.button we will answer as many questions.as possible during the Q&A session that.will follow the main presentation but.please feel free to send in your.questions at any time let me now.introduce today's speaker Mike drozer.Durocher is a tuv certified functional.safety engineer through machinery this.20 years of experience include controls.engineering to design build and.integrate full machine control systems.his safety experience led him to help.corporations to develop corporate safety.standards perform machine safeguarding.risk assessments machine safety training.and design as well as implementation of.safety systems for all aspects of.machinery now let me turn things over to.our presenter Mike the floor is yours.Thank You Stephanie well hello everybody.appreciate everybody taking some time to.attend the webinar today a lot of you.may have attended some of our past.webinars this one's slightly on a.different side where we're focusing.really down onto a specific issue when.it comes to what we call separating a.not separated guarding so things like.hard guarding and present sensing.devices such as light curtains what we.find.in many cases is Gardner being miss.applied the the intention is there but.not looking at the actual safety.distance and knowing that people still.have reaching capability of getting hurt.so in this webinar we really wanted to.tackle that subject then utilize two.resources with ISO standards being ISO.thirteen 855 and I said 13 857 it will.talk some more details about those two.standards as we talk the different.guarding types and looking at safety.distances or machinery when we look at.guarding types we break them into it.they just mentioned separating versus.non separating and what does that really.mean.separating considered hard guards.whether they be fixed guards that are.permanently mounted to a post onto a.machine they're not removable by.operators and then you have movable.guards such as swing doors.counterbalance doors sliders lift off.covers and as you know with those type.of guards you have some types of safety.interlock switch on them but in both of.those cases with 50 moveable guards the.ability of reaching through around under.the guard up becomes an issue and that.becomes clear in dealing with safety.distances the standard for that is.specifically ISO 13 857 as you see on.the slide there when we talk nonsense a.few examples white curtains to hand.control mat but it's also bumpers and.edges and laser scanners anything that.detects presence of people but it's not.a physical barrier guard we're not able.to use the same charts that we see in.ISO 13 857 because we're a guard.physically.opps you a hard guard physically stops.you from penetrating so far you can have.a fixed chart with a distance with non.separated guards such as light turns and.two hand control when you initiate that.stop by breaking the light curtain for.example it takes more to determine.safety distance because the light.curtain is not physically stopping you.you're going all the way in and you're.going to continue going.the idea behind things like present.settings devices that quick easy access.but an important factor in safety.distance is looking at stop time in the.machine and we utilize ISO 39:55 as the.design standard for safety distances.based off of calculations there's.formulas in there based off of the.devices the way they're mounted and it.gives you a good idea of where safety.devices such as light curtains need to.be positioned relative to safety.distance per the hazard first I'm going.to talk about would be the fixed or.movable guards and I think everybody on.the line is probably seeing signs.exactly like this similar to this you.see the warning signs on the machine the.caution signs as you see right there.warning automatic start keep hands clear.at all times.but even that one on the bottom warnings.and I reach over under guards in in.cases like that when you see those signs.it might be a trigger that there might.be an issue with safety distance if you.have that reaching capability so what.we're looking at is when you see the.picture in the top right hand corner of.the slide you can have some sort of.perimeter fence as an example whether.it's a solid lexan barrier whether it's.made out of aluminum extrusion welded.steel clip then bolted in it's still.some form of hard guarding to protect.people from getting into any hazardous.motion or energy.into a machine to keep them safe but.part of what we have to look at with the.heart guarding is our reaching.capability and it's not just reaching.through the guard because a solid.left-hand cover.we can't just reach in up through it.it's a solid piece of material but as.you see in the picture we do have guards.such as mesh that we have to be.concerned with reaching through but what.about reaching over the top if the guard.is not high enough based off of where.the hazard is and I can reach right over.top of the guard I could potentially get.my hand into a hazardous situation if.that fence is mounted too close to the.hazard point excuse me reaching around.we have seen cases where we've had the.best of intentions or the customer had.the best of intentions they installed a.fence.such as this with an access door to.protect from identified hazards they.found or in their risk assessment.process and as we're walking through.they had these new guards installed and.the one aspect that they didn't look at.is the fact that if you look at that.picture in the top right again you see.that you have the mesh clipped on the.left side of that post but there's.nothing clipped on the right side my.ability to reach around the guard.reaching under the guard some prime.guards are too high even though they may.only be six inches off the floor which a.body cannot reach through there but your.hand and arm can still reach underneath.the guard then you get to any hazard.points at that particular case so being.able to review what that safety distance.is and utilize something like ISO 39:57.is going to be a key benefit of ensuring.that you have proper safety distance so.when we look at the next slide here to.showed you a couple of examples with the.picture on the left and reaching over.top of the.or the middle picture of the hand.reaching around the post through the.guard.what's my reaching capability is getting.to that has or what is the safety.distance and that could be I'm still.stopped up to my body but if it doesn't.stop my body from going in there how.effective is that guard at that point in.time the last picture being the picture.on the right is reaching through when.you have opening sizes in the guards.slots squares what's your depth.penetration of that guard how far can.you reach through before the guard.physically stop - so what if the cover.is a couple of the examples right out of.ISO 1357 this particular example what.we're showing is the chart that they.have in the standard with the basis of.reaching over with a high potential risk.factor when you look at your risk.assessment you have a high risk which is.your safety distances really B so you.can see with the bottom picture with the.hand reaching over top of the guard with.my capability of reaching the hazard so.when you look at the height of the.hazard versus the height of the guard.you look at the chart and you see that.your height of the hazard is your first.column all the way on the left and the.top row gives you the height of the.guard what they're calling the.protective structure draw a line and.that will give you your safety distance.which you'll see in that little figurine.drawing the C with that C that is the.safety distance meaning how far away's.is that guard have to be from that.hazard point at that given point of time.I will come back and look at some.additional examples but with this.particular one one example we can say if.the height of your hazard is 1,200.millimeters off of the floor.the scroll down that left-hand column of.1,200 millimeters but the height of your.guard is a 1,800 millimeters well then.your safety distance if you go across.the row and max it up with 1,800 you'll.see that our safety distance actually.has to be 700 millimeters away now given.this as an ISO standard you'll see all.the calculations and distances are all.determined in millimeters for those not.familiar or as comfortable with the.metric system just to give you an idea.if you want to convert in your head or.using a calculator 25.4 millimeters is.equal to one inch if you're just looking.for just a rough number just for.conversations it's 25 millimeters to an.inch or you can say for every 100.millimeters is 4 inches gives you just a.quick rough estimate calculation just to.give you an idea of what that is so if.you think about 700 millimeters 7 times.4 is about 28 inches of safety distance.based off of the height of that.structure as well as the height of the.hazard so whichever one you're more.comfortable with but what you're going.to see in the slides today because this.is what these standards call out they're.all in millimeter dimensions next.example is the ability of reaching.around such as we show in the picture.you can reach around the GAR but your.torso your body is able to stop you this.is one of the charts that says based off.of that.what's your safety distance based off.the erasing capability from being.supported at your shoulder your elbow to.your wrist to your knuckles and they.give you some different numbers.associated with that so when you look at.that.top one being reaching through and.stopping at your body what you'll see is.the safety distance is equal to or.greater than 850 millimeters what does.that roughly come out to it comes out to.around the.35 inches and if anybody in the United.States has ever heard of the three-foot.rule which is three feet or 36 inches.that's what it's really representing is.your being able to stop with your torso.and the average reaching distance.wouldn't be more than three feet so you.have a three foot safety distance when.you're creating tunnels for example of.the entrances or exits to the machine to.prevent that reach-in but as you can see.that's where that number comes from is.the average human study and the reaching.capability of reaching Breuer around the.guard with up being stopped up to your.body the next one which comes really.important is we see guards with holes in.them whether they're SWAT it square.around as you see in the charts up here.you'll see that there are certain safety.distances that apply based off of that.opening size and you're reaching.capability how you would actually read.this chart is you would look at your.opening size which you see is the third.column what's your opening size in.millimeters once you get down to that.range you would go across based off of.whether you had a slotted square around.opening and that'll give you your safety.distances on the next couple of slides.I'm going to show you some examples of.utilizing this particular chart based.off of opening sizes so bear with me.here when you see across the top it says.slotted square or round these are just.some examples of what that means so the.picture on the left is your slotted.opening picture on the middle is your.square and the one on the right is.ground please just have a perf steel or.flattened expanded metal or a wire mesh.but where are you actually taking those.measurements and I know they might be.little hard to see in the PowerPoint but.in each picture if you look at where the.red arrows are drawn what are you taking.the measurement of I think it's pretty.clear on the round it's just the.diameter of the hole on the square.you're not going diagonal you're going.either up down or left right what is.that spacing from end to end it's going.to be the same up-down left-right.because the square opening the.rectangular comes into question.sometimes where do you actually take the.measurement and a lot of times people.think you're actually taking the.measurement and if you look at that.particular picture is from left to right.it's actually up and down it's the width.of the slot or rectangular opening not.the length because when you look at.these charts what is it actually.considering it's not a flat profile your.fingers your hand your arm is not flat.it's round it has shades to it so what.is the minimum that your fingers can get.through and have your limitation and.it's going to be on the width side of.that slotted opening so jumping back to.the chart I'm going to give you a couple.of examples here the first one is when.you have a slotted opening and let's say.the length of the slot is 100.millimeters the width of slot is 19.millimeters so if you look at the chart.on the right go through down to your.opening size and you see anything from.12 up to 20 millimeters that's where our.19 millimeters is falling and we have it.slotted opening so our safety distance.is going to be equal to or greater than.120 millimeters which is roughly.approximately 5 inches of safety.distance and so what they're saying is.your hand can only go so far up to about.5 inches with that 19 millimeter gap in.the fencing itself staying with slotted.guarding with the.examples let's say if we increase the.width of that flight from 19 millimeters.to 24 well if we go from 20 up to 30 we.have a huge jump.we went from 120 millimeter safety.distance 850 millimeter safety distance.and that Dean's life is very drastic and.it's a lot for safety distance but based.off of average human studies is where.this came from the Standards Committee.pulled us from and they basically say in.a slide up to 30 millimeters potentially.somebody can reach their whole hand all.the way through up to their arm up to.their torso there are some small people.out there that have that region.capability or that flexibility of being.able to get their whole hand and arm.into those slots I know it sounds a.little bit crazy but there is a note and.that note takes us to our next slide if.the length of the slot went from 100.millimeters down to 48 millimeters what.you see is we're still at a 24.millimeter width so when we go to our.opening size from 20 to 30 millimeters.we still see 850 but there's a note a.right next to 850 and I'm not sure if.you're able to read it on your slides.but it's definitely in the standard.because an extract right from the.standard it's telling you that note a is.if the length of your slot is equal to.or less than 65 millimeters your thumb.now acts as a stop.meaning the average human hand studies.you're not getting a hand in from 65.millimeters including your thumb so your.thumb is going to actually stop as a.guard so now you can reduce that safety.distance to 200 millimeters why do I.bring that up it's like any other.standards you really have to.through the standard and sometimes you.have to read through the fine print to.make sure you're applying the proper.safety distance because in some cases.like you see this one here these hundred.fifty millimeters does seem a little bit.ridiculous but they take a realistic.approach to say hey if you are less than.65 go ahead and reduce it to 200 and as.Stephanie mentioned if you have.questions on any of that of what I just.covered go ahead and type it in your two.and a field and we'll get to it at the.end of the session here the next set of.devices we're going to talk about would.be the non separating or the present.sensing devices as we mentioned a heart.guard physically stops you you're only.going to go so far in a hard guard.whether it's reaching over under or.through it's physically stopping you but.things like light curtains and Max and -.in control does not stop you you are.breaking that beam or letting your hand.off of the buttons or you're stepping on.that mat but it doesn't mean you can't.go any further.you're still reaching into the machine.at that point the what are some of the.considerations that we have to take into.account as we read through and apply ISO.39:55 which is the standard for.calculating safety distance for present.sensing devices when we look at these.design considerations you can see in the.bowl points there one of the first.things is motion has to stop anywhere.within a machine cycle things like full.revolution presses or riveters where.they have a little dog gear that.releases it goes a full revolution.sometimes you'll see that somebody may.have applied to hand control or light.curtains to the front of it to gain easy.access to it but in reality is because.it still goes all the way in its cycle.and it's relying on that little dog gear.to capture it it can miss.it can keep firing it's not a good.application for president sensing device.as soon as you initiate the stop you.have to get that to stop anywhere within.the cycle or not let it finish its cycle.some machines if you have inconsistent.stopping times and what we mean by that.is you can have a machine that stops we.do a stop time measurement in 50.milliseconds the next one is 30.milliseconds but then the next one is.270 milliseconds the next one is a.second and a half the next one is 25.milliseconds when you have a huge.variation of actual stop times based off.of the performance of the machine maybe.the question is at a good application.for present sensing device because then.how do you effectively install it to the.proper safety distance you have.reflective surfaces that can interfere.with light curtains and bounce beams.around the fact is severe environment so.laser scanner susceptible to smoke and.flying debris if they're not installed.properly no protection against flying.objects meaning if your machine has a.risk of ejection of parts the heart.guard may be designed in a way where it.physically stops that ejection a device.like a light curtain because it's an.invisible wall does that stop youth and.the visible infrared beams that's coming.through that light curtain achoo.but the last part which is really.important is how you determine the.Machine response time what is the.response time so when we look at ISO.1355 there's a few factors that it takes.into place and there's different.formulas based off of the type of device.you're using and how its installed so.what is it looking at object resolution.it's got approach speed.with Direction e coming in vertically.horizontally is the device angled so.what's the position and you're reaching.capability as you see now we have a.formula x equals K times T plus C what.does that really mean what are those.letters represent s is the hand speed.constant and the standard specifically.gives you those hand speed constants.that you use based off of the device and.the installation I'm sorry s is the.safety the K is the hand speed constant.or your ability to how fast can your.hand or your legs to penetrate that.safety device T is your stopping time of.the machine what how long does it take.to physically stop the machine as a.result and then see what they're calling.intrusion distance is your we hear a lot.more in the US as depth penetration.factor how far can you potentially go.into that device before you're.guaranteed to trick that so the next.couple slides will talk a little bit.more about that as well we look at some.examples of the formulas it's not just.one formula and unfortunately and a lot.of standards you will see one formula.called out you'll see a range of hand.speed constants that you use in this.particular case if we look at the first.two formulas they use a hand speed.constant of either two thousand.millimeters a second or 1600 millimeters.a second these two formulas typically.have to do with light curtains mounted.in a vertical direction you see D which.is the object resolution detection so.are using a 14 millimeter or 30.millimeter resolution.some light curtain as an example teaser.stop time in the machine so why did they.have two formulas well when you read.through the standard what they're.actually telling you is you start off.using the two thousand millimeters a.second but once you go beyond a.calculation of five hundred millimeters.which is roughly about 25 inches they're.telling you can recalculate based off of.the slower hand speed based off a.distance so you can recalculate using.sixteen hundred millimeters a second but.you cannot be any closer than five.hundred believe me I know and realize.it's hard hearing that over a webinar.this is where acquiring ISO thirteen a.fifty five and thirteen eighty fifty.seven from you know the ISO organization.or you can buy these standards on the.ANSI organization on their online store.it's important to have these standards.so you can read through them and.properly apply the safety distances but.when you look at some of the other.formulas such as that third one down.that 850 may look familiar we saw it in.another slide it's the reaching.capability and it's a torso well when.you look at things like like grits where.your whole hand and arm go through in.between beams.but it's not into your body actually.trips the beams or whatever our stop.time is we have to add that additional.eight hundred and fifty because of.reaching capability the next one down an.example of that would be safety mats or.light curtains mounted horizontally on.the floor when you look at your approach.your ability to step on the mat and.you're reaching capability where you can.bend over as well as reach that's why.that to increase the 1200 the next one.we're dealing with height is adjusting.the height such as a laser scanner or a.horizontal light curtain where you can.move higher off the floor reduces your.reaching capability the last one is it.sample of two hand control but again the.ISO 39:55 will give you those details of.based off of the device which formula.would you use what would you apply I.know I throw a lot of formulas ideas.don't expect you to remember it the.standards cover it but there are some.aspects with the standards that I'm.sorry at a little note some aspects with.the standards that we wanted to cover.those aspects being death penetration.factor what do we really mean by death.penetration factor or what the standard.specifically calls intrusion distance.when you see the picture on the left.simulating the front of a light curtain.if you look at the hand going through.the little red circles represent one of.the are the beams inside the lighter and.the infrared beams and if you see that.hands starting to go through that light.curtain the fingers are actually going.in between beams if you think about a 30.millimeter resolution lay curtain which.resolution means a minimum object.diameter that can detect through the.entire field anything smaller than that.you can go potentially between beams so.if your hand as a worst-case scenario.can go between beams the beams.how far can your fingers penetrate in.before you're guaranteed to trip the.beam right above your hand or right.below your hand and that's where those.safety distance formulas on the previous.slide the additional depth penetration.factor it shows you a formula of eight.multiplied by the object resolution.minus 14 so we have a 30 millimeter.resolution light curtain 30 minus 14 if.fifteen sixteen times eight gives us 128.millimeters so whatever we calculate.with hand speed and stop time we're.adding an additional 128 millimeters.roughly about five five-and-a-half.inches because that's representing your.hand can potentially go in about five.inches or so before you're guaranteed to.trip the beam above or below same thing.if you look at the example of a safety.met the person about to walk on the.safety mat there but right at the edge.of that safety mat if you think about.their arms stretching out and their body.bending over they can penetrate so far.and what the safety distance additional.death penetration factor is called out.is the 1,200 millimeters then you can.potentially reach roughly 48 inches.before you have to step on that mat to.initiate this shut down the machine so.that's the additional measurement that.has to be added to that the next thing.with it is the stop time of the machine.itself where the standard ISO 13 855.gives you some specific criteria as far.as when do you use this hand speed.versus this one what do you add for.depth penetration factor the one value.that is not given is stop time the.machine because that's the value that.has to be figured out there's two ways.to do it calculate based off of knowing.the components you have in your machine.and any of the response time of those.components or your system so for example.if you have a light curtain installed on.your machine you know by looking at the.manufacturers installation instructions.what is the response time of that light.curtain in shutting its outputs down it.may be.fifteen milliseconds as an example that.light curtain is wired into a safety.monitoring relay or safety controller.that response time is given by the.manufacturers twenty milliseconds so now.we get 20 plus 15 we're at 35.milliseconds from the reaction of those.outputs those outputs are shutting down.contactors to shut down a motor both the.response time of those output contactors.may be that 25 milliseconds so as you.can see we're adding up the components.along the chain which getting response.time of components is may not be that.difficult but knowing what the stop time.is of the actual motion whether it be a.motor if you can calculate the dynamics.and the mechanical aspects such as.because the motor is connected to a.gearbox it's going to take X number of.milliseconds to stop or the motor is a.direct drive motor and there's very.little mechanical resistance that it's.going to keep coasting to a stop without.any braking mechanism in there will.power such as pneumatics and hydraulics.the size of your lines versus the flow.rate and the time the response time of.the valves and how much it exhausts back.out to create a stop on that cylinder or.dump back the tank are you able to.calculate that out and if you are that's.great you have a calculated stop time.but accommodate for mechanical wear and.you can do a calculated stop time.unfortunately what we find is a lot of.times trying to calculate is either.extremely difficult or maybe impossible.for people to be able to do especially.given the age of the machine and the.component where so the other aspect that.you can do instead of calculation is.measure there are several stop time.analyzers out there on the market some.are you'll handheld devices.our computer base with a communication.module the ones you see pictured here is.a PC or laptop based software system.that communicates with that module you.hook up to encoders triggers flag and.you actually take stop time measurements.as a result the whole idea when you look.at that is it gives you a much more.accurate stop time that you can develop.a report for and put those numbers in.those calculations based off ISO 13 855.and get an accurate safety distance.which that safety distance can be.checked when we look at that if you try.to guess we say I have a note here.guessing can lead to an injury there are.times where we've seen people try to use.a stopwatch they hit the button and hit.the stop watch and wait till they see no.motion and hit it again unfortunately.that's you got doom in response I'm in.there you're not going to be extremely.accurate when it comes to that and the.more accurate you are the better it's.going to be you can think worst case.scenario it's going to be you know maybe.the Machine typically stops in 200.milliseconds we're just going to throw.you know two seconds on there to be safe.what you're going to see in the next.slide is a time difference is very very.critical and has a huge impact on safety.distance the other aspect is the the.change in time as we said a small change.it has that significant impact.resistance and proper safety distance so.guessing doesn't work what do we mean by.that well when you look at this slide.here we're showing two different safety.calculations this is a vertical white.curtain using a fourteen millimeter.resolution object detectability based.off of fourteen millimeter resolution if.you see the picture on the left that.number three they.that's the actual stop time of the.machine we plugged in here 100.milliseconds 100 millisecond stop time.with a 14 millimeter resolution light.curtain our actual safety distance is.200 millimeters or roughly about 8.inches which seems very realistic and.practical but knowing that stop time is.important because even at under.milliseconds you need to be 8 inches.away from the hazard point and light.curtains are probably one of the most.miss applied safety devices because they.ended up replacing doors and they had a.nice solid frame to attach to not.realizing the light curtain may have.been mounted too close the picture on.the right we just changed the stock time.from 100 milliseconds to 1 second in the.grand scheme of things you think in one.second one second is not a lot of time.we're only talking 900 milliseconds of.difference here and at 900 milliseconds.of difference you will see the impact go.from a safety distance of 200.millimeters up to 1,600 millimeters of.safety distance so a real rough.approximate estimate in inches 16 times.4 you're at 64 inches safety distance so.we went from approximately 8 inches to.64 inches away not from the edge of the.machine but from wherever the hazard.point is located that so having an.actual stop time measurement is.extremely important to ensure you got.proper safety distance not only proper.safety distance a practical safety.distance meaning if you can get 100.millisecond stop time where it's more.practical and usable in real life which.you may find many of your machines are.great but if you guess at it and say 500.milliseconds you'll see that I'll have a.significant impact on what your true.safety distance is when you plug into.these formulas so at a 14 millimeter.resolution we go from 200 to 16.and just to show you a comparison to a.30 millimeter resolution because your.object detect the ability is increase.our 100 milliseconds we have to add that.additional depth penetration factor you.remember we said the fingers going.between beings was an additional 120.eight millimeters which is why we now.see a safety distance of 328 millimeters.and the one second same thing it was at.1600 we had to add that addition 128 so.it's out 1728 milliseconds what does it.look like when it comes to to hand.control l2 in control you'll see at 100.versus a thousand where do the two hand.palm buttons need to be placed from 410.millimeters to 1850 millimeters so could.be significant knowing what that stop.time is for positioning your to a in.control it's not just right at the.Pratt's if it takes forever to stop the.last example wanted to show you was the.safety mats safety mats are phenomenal.device but they're not typically used as.primary protection because of how big.the mat needs to be their use as.supplementary secondary protection.inside cells around areas that people.can't normally get to but without having.any guarding or any light curtains or.anything like that trying to use a mat.as a primary protection may be perfectly.fine but you don't know that until you.actually plug in the safety distance.formula because even at a hundred.milliseconds if we take our 1600 x 100.milliseconds we have 160 millimeters we.have to add an additional 1200 to that.so our safety distance is 1,350.millimeters which comes out to roughly.at 2650 to about 54 inches bassy.distance roughly but an increase.sin stop time up to one second that's.the huge number and the matches have to.be monsters as a primary protection and.gets a little crazy impeding I always so.they were just some quick examples of.calculations using the safety distance.formula why did I go into more detail.with those when you look at heart.guarding versus present sensing devices.the hard guarding you have physical.formulas the present sensing devices you.I'm sorry you don't have physical you.have physical charts that you can pull a.number from with present sensing devices.you have specific formulas that you have.to tie in and you need to know proper.safety distance as a result how often.should you perform a stop time analysis.ISO 13 855 does not give any specific.time intervals from anything that I read.normally what you find is the testing.time is usually has recommendations by.the manufacturer does an example you may.pull a installation instructions.operation manual for the light curtain.you look at the back page for the.checklist the the PM's how often should.you check it typically you'll see a test.time of every six months to know that.the Machine hasn't worn down and hasn't.taken longer to stop which you're.maintaining proper safety distance as a.result get hard guarding there's no.variation because even if it stops.longer you still only have a certain.reaching capability things like light.curtains you have additional reaching so.the additional measure that they get.into and talk about is you can't just.take one measurement what the standard.calls out is you have to take at least.ten measurements and based off those ten.measurements.you're either using the maximum or.you're using the average plus three.standard deviations whichever is greater.and that'll give you more of a accurate.safety distance calculation so at this.point I know this was more eared and.specific to installation and safety.distances but it was an important topic.we felt was definitely needed knowing.that when you install guards because.we're seeing a lot of people and.customers that have definitely the best.of intentions they do not want to see.people get hurt so they're installing.the garden they're adding these safety.devices and they're spending money doing.that and maintaining their productivity.the last thing that you want to see is.somebody still get hurt after you put.all these efforts into because these.devices were not installed properly so.we wanted to bring more of an awareness.of that to really help people make sure.that when you go through that they are.being installed per the safety distances.that you can document so Stephanie this.time let's pass back you and open up the.questions all right thank you.a few of you have already submitted.questions but if you haven't had a.chance to it should be located in the.window should be located on the left.side of your presentation Council so for.our first question how do these.distances compare of separated guards.compared to the table of distances OSHA.specifies in subpart oh okay and excuse.me what we found is some variations.between what was in the OSHA standard.what is in some of the ANSI standard.some of the ANSI standards have their.own charts as well as they recommend the.use of ISO 13 857 in some of their.standards and then ISO 13 857 there is.deaf.variations from what I know at this.point in time looking at those.variations a lot of the ocean numbers.the the people what people know the.ocean gotta stick comes from the.powerpress standard nineteen ten to one.seven and those safety distances were.pulled from a study done by Liberty.Mutual back in the early 80s and hasn't.really been updated much since where the.39:57 accommodates for more than modern.day workforce.so there are tend to be some slight.changes from the things that I have.found in looking at the comparison the.biggest changes I see is some of the.smaller opening size at the the.beginning side of it on the ISO tends to.need to be a little bit further away and.the reason being is when you look at the.modern workforce there's a lot more.women in the workforce and the average.female versus the average male the.average female tends to have smaller.hands than the average male so they can.get into tighter areas a little bit.further than the average male so the.studies accommodate for that usually.what I end up recommending is whatever.standard you're going to go with when it.comes to the safety distances I spoke.specifically in 1380 57 if a specific.auntie one with their chart applies to.your specific machine by all means use.that if OSHA seems to be a better fit.for you for the machine that you're.you're working with I would definitely.look at that and compare it to thirteen.eighty fifty seven but if you're using.some sort of safety distance chart that.you can document you at least know that.you have some sort of safety distance in.place and that's to be more of the key.than anything else.I'm not specific to saying you must and.you have to use ISO 39:57.it is the standard that a lot of other.standards are actually recommending and.going by.whatever standard you use document when.you're using and why you're using it to.me it becomes more of an issue of the.reaching capability because when you.look at that reaching chart in the 1910.to 1:7 for OSHA for power presses it's.actually the chart for reaching through.but it doesn't differentiate between.slotted square around opening sizes or.irregular sizes and it doesn't.accommodate for the reaching capability.of reaching over under around and that's.where thirteen eighty fifty seven really.expands on so I'd like thirteen a fifty.seven because it has a lot more details.but it's not dismissing because OSHA is.our governing body in the United States.you definitely want to utilize the the.chart that they're going by but look at.that comparison you will see some slight.differences but ultimately what we end.up finding is a drastic difference in.installation because no charts were.being used if you're using one of them.Alicia or get into a proper safety.distances the problem comes down to when.you're not using any safety distance.chart the guard ends up being way too.close and you have a risk of serious.injury all right um its next question is.what about u.s. standards such as ANSI I.think we just covered that in the last.one ANSI standards many of the ANSI.standards that I have read through they.refer back to ISO 39:57 for safety.distance especially and he's the ones.have been revised in the last several.years there are there are some ANSI.standards that have a different opening.size reaching capability I think be 11 ..19 is an example where it's utilizing.some of the human studies done recently.recently by Liberty Mutual faculty I.want to say in the early 2000s but don't.quote me on that that there are some.differences in there as well but it.comes down to many of those.ANSI standards and ISO standards on that.quarter paraded into reference in the.wall by OSHA so you won't get fined for.violating those standards because their.industry voluntary consensus standard.but you're encouraged to use them as.such okay um how does time affect safety.distance of an e-stop how does time.affects safety distance of an e-stop.with east stop what they're looking more.at on the ESOP devices is it's more of.some machines and they're reaching.capability that because the machine.guarding is the primary guard so whether.it be a hard guard or light curtain.having that safety that e-stop at a.proper safety distance though if that.becomes the primary protection you don't.have the recent capability into the.machine to actuate the e stops normally.even though you see that in there.because e stops are secondary and.they're outside the guard you don't.normally see a safety distance on the e.stop even though it's considered a.presence sensing device it's the hard.guard of the light curtain that becomes.more of the issue all right.it's the calculator tool available for.download the calculator tool the one.that you saw in the images is part of.the software package from the stop time.analyzer that we use so if you purchase.a stop time analyzer from a manufacturer.most of them with their software tools.have those calculators and them to use.so I just took snapshots or if it's a.screenshot of those numbers based off of.using the software tool we have it's not.available for free downloads you have to.purchase a stop time analyzer but I know.it becomes a quick simple easy.to have that calculator it's nothing.more just a nice graphical.representation of something that you can.create an excel you can create the same.formulas in Excel and just create those.different tabs or the screenshots but.you just have to create at that point in.time otherwise if it's something that.you're interested in in getting that.stop time measurement whether you hire.somebody like us to do stock time.measurements but a lot of times.customers may want to have their own.tool and they can get that software and.have the calculator in there and be able.to print out the reports okay um.when using safety mats if they're.minimum depth that the met has to extend.from the safe distance I assume we have.to go all the way to the hazard but I.cannot find it in the standard okay I'm.sorry Stephanie missed you there broke.up can you repeat that for me okay.when using safety mats is there a.minimum depth at the mat has to extend.from the safe distance I assume it has.to go all the way to the hazard but I.cannot find it in the standards okay I'm.understanding the question right and if.I don't please go ahead and then type in.and clarify for me with safety mats and.this question may have came in before.him but what safety mats what you have.to do is the depth of the mat being if.you have an example where you're at the.edge of a machine if somebody's trying.to put a four foot wide by two foot give.depth to the machine that doesn't meet.safety distances because when you read.39:55 when you're using a mat which is.on that horizontal surface the formula.tastes that hand speed of 1600.millimeters multiplied by the stop time.of the machine and you add twelve.hundred millimeters to it so that twelve.hundred one hundred millimeters is the.additional depth required based off of.reaching capability but keep in mind.with all of the.not just max its max light curtains to.hand control all of them it's not to the.edge of the machine it's to the edge of.the hazard so in that math calculation.at the 1200 millimeters if we stop in.100 milliseconds we said 1,600 times 0.1.being 100 milliseconds is 160.millimeters plus the 1200 so our safety.distance from the start of the edge of.the mat to the hazard needs to be 1,300.60 millimeters so at 1,300 60.millimeters that's not the edge of the.machine that's the start of the mat so.the hazard is 300 millimeters into the.machine well 13 60 minus 300 is 1060 so.your mat needs to be 1060 millimeters.wide from the active area to the edge of.the Machine because you have these.ditional 300 bite distance is the.hazardous arounder millimeters into the.machine but hope I hope I understood.that question right and answered that.properly for the person that asked okay.what do I do about guards I've already.installed and find that they do not meet.the standards okay.these get a little bit trickier with.guards that you have installed when you.use the ISO 39:57 as your standard.template and you pull up the charts if.the problem is I can reach around the.guard how do you add additional guarding.then you add filler panels sometimes.people think well I got a rip down the.guarding and replace it all with all new.guarding if you're guarding is fine it.might be extending the guarding like.some Guardian manufacturers you can add.extension panels to it and grow them for.reaching capability.if it's reaching under you might need to.add a filler panel underneath to keep.people from reaching under if it's.reaching around it might be adding a.panel but in 90 degrees to the guard to.keep you from reaching around the guard.the harder one comes down to is if.you're facing distance they're fine for.reaching over under around but it's.reaching through that becomes the.problem while we're reaching through a.guard and our guard is way too close you.either need to start backing the guard.up or you may need to change the guard.material so instead of a a wire mesh for.example maybe it needs to be a lexan.panel or plexiglass or a steel panel.that gets installed because you cannot.reach through that at that point in time.keep your posts where they are change.the panel out as a result to get your.safety distance okay here um let's see.well it looks like we're about out of.time we're at the top of the hour if we.did not get to your question today we.would be providing all the questions to.Mike so he can answer outside of this.live broadcast on behalf of EHS today.new equipment digest and machine design.I would like to thank our speaker Mike.for his presentation this afternoon I.also like to tank smart thanks Marshall.for making this webinar possible I would.also like to thank you our audience for.your time and attention.we hope that you found today's event.valuable and will return for future.webcasts have a great remainder of the.day.

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