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good afternoon I'm Doug Stewart with the.Society of aviation and flight educators.here at Sun and fun 2019 and with me are.my real good friends Mike garrison and.Mills Isis the three of us are.examiner's designated pilot examiner's.we're going to talk a little bit today.about some of the problems we see with.practical tests that we conduct as.initial CFI practical tests so Mike why.don't you start off what's your worst.one that you see well I think some of.the very basic things that I see far too.often are candidates that come for a.test and they aren't prepared.I've had people show up without a.knowledge test that people show up.without an 8710 application completed.this is pretty elementary or you should.even send somebody to an examiner.without these basics probably more.important I'm finding some very basic.things such as the use of GPS when you.dig a little deeper that the instructor.has doesn't have those skills himself.and thus has not prepared the Kennedy.know if one of the things that I find.important is just the fundamentals.it's a flight instructor or.but even but most importantly the.initial plate instructor candidates they.get very important that they understand.fundamentals and that that means those.kinds of things you were talking about.these are the things that you expect to.have into doing oblique tasks practical.tasks but also the aerodynamic issue.factors.or applicants who don't really.understand.and the problem is as you said.disturbs that usually the instructor.that either didn't understand or do do a.job.I think it's so important to build that.foundation of valleys and constructors.the King penetration.it seems to me that many of them come.and and they are not prepared but even.the tools that they're using to prepare.and an example left-turning tendencies.you know we can probably ask half the.people walking down this aisle here.where the left-turning tendencies come.from they could probably tell us but I.actually had a flight instructor initial.applicant tell me he was trying to.describe P factor and said because the.descending blade went faster as it went.down than the ascending blade and I.scratched my head and I said well it is.kind of all forged out of one piece of.metal how does this happen.where did you learn this and his.answered YouTube and he's not the first.person that I've seen that way and I've.asked have you read the airplane flying.hammer the what the airplane flying him.I suggest you read it so I certainly see.lack of preparation or poor preparation.with the wrong tools I think a lot of.instructors don't realize it whether.it's a.[Music].and in each of the tasks you have.reference this could be the fly in work.for whatever is perfect and I don't.think many of the instructors realize.that they.themselves because I'll have people to.say you know disagree about how.something's was to be done I said oh.sure let me just pull a knife and we'll.look at the five-year bargains.when he mentioned the Airman's.certification standards HCS a very weak.area I'm saying is the risk management.that was a new element that was actually.put into the standards and when I have.people tell me that proficiency and.currency is the same thing they clearly.don't understand those are distinctly.two very different things.and that's just one of a whole lot that.I'm finding that the instructors are not.preparing people in that risk manager.Berry is very very weak on most of the.tests that I see.I agree they're missing it completely.outplayed often ask the applicant and.this is the CFI initialed again I ask.any applicant whether it's private.instrument or commercial I said we have.basically four buckets of race that we.have to manage as pilots well in their.place whether it's once around the.pattern or once around the world.what are those buckets and they stare at.me and I'll ask well have you heard the.pave acronym and sometimes we'll say now.when I started with them I asked.have you read the ACS is your testing to.a BTS is a CF I but you have to teach to.the ACS do you know how many times the.word paved the acronym paid appears in.the ACS here in the headlights and if.there are eight times by my count I.might have missed a cup and yet I see.that just as you say Mike they're not.teaching.and we certainly have major problems.that there's a lack of stick of rudder.skills but there's also yes yes have.been out now one to three years I think.for the private by this point we think.that instructors are learning to teach.mal risk management how do you think.instructors should work the in risk.management into their training I find a.lot of people who just go by the nuts.and bolts you know here's step one two.three four and you learn all the nuts.and bolts of the process but it doesn't.seem like they go beyond that and get.into these other elements like the risk.management which is so important.proficiency applies to everything you do.whether it's a manoeuvre the planning.proficiency is pretty basic to Florida.absolutely I discussed with them what.tools can they give a learner to help.them manage risks and what I'm looking.for is some mention of personal minimums.or a flight risk assessment tool but.when I ask them how do you teach a.learner how to objectify these things.they're lost and it's because they've.never gotten it in their own training I.think it's important that.from students really or for mobiles day.one need to get into the risk management.mindset and they need to be thinking.about you know maybe they'll make a.wrong decision but they do it under the.tutelage of their instructor and they.learned by doing you know maybe it's you.know they have other bands or whatever.maybe and based on that they can make a.decision and you know the student may.fail that they they should go ahead take.the flight within the instructor will.say well yes but you didn't consider.this and that way it's another step in.the learning process.I think instructors that are so focused.on just teaching that particular.maneuver or tasks or whatever it is they.kind of lose sight.going in a slightly different direction.I know I've seen a problem with.applicants CFI applicants really being.aware of their responsibilities and this.is certainly any area of operation one.but there are true responsibilities as.instructors and when I'm looking for if.I ask what's your most important.responsibility what I'm looking to here.is to create a safe pilot and sometimes.let's start talking about all the things.that Shepherd air told them to talk.about they never understand that they.have to give the why of something.they're able to talk wrote knowledge.what they've read in their prep material.but another say well why do you want to.tell her that they're lost and the other.another thing I try to stress with new.instructor applicants is if somebody by.the fellow that gave me my initial.instructor checkride made the point and.I've used that ever since then these.standards that you set and the.performance that you demonstrate to your.students is the best that they will ever.do so if you cut the corner here cut the.corner there and don't worry about this.rule or whatever then that's the.standard just MCS and that.that's what they will emulate in their.own flying but personally think the.initial cf5 is probably the most.important to check rather than any of.them and if you put a bad instructor out.there you're going to put a bad pilot.sir we don't we have enough of them out.there now no need agreed anymore so that.one exactly what you're saying Billy you.need to go standard just have to be rock.bottom's you can't give on that at all.no I've got a reputation for that I.don't give any on that initial see if.it's the most important test as far as.I'm concerned when you have an initial.CFI that it's important that you really.stick with the basics the fundamentals.[Music].about today whether it's linear and.[Music].Giana prayers through seven.in San Francisco because they could fly.a visual approach basic fundamentals are.so so important have a foundation.another unfortunate thing and I've said.this before publicly to national.audiences we've got a lot of instructors.who are only there because they want.ours and they're not interested in.teaching and I think I certainly see.this in the instructor applicants to.come to me and one of the exam why are.you becoming an instructor are you.coming to instructor because you really.want to teach because you recognize this.is the most important job we have in.aviation and none of them are oh no I.need 1500 hours and then I'm done.teaching and how can we expect better.when our system is set up this way I.couldn't agree with that more it just.sometimes that initial CFR I'm not sure.they've really got their head on.straight I had a gentleman two weeks ago.is actually he he didn't have to do any.of the FOI stuff because he teaches at a.college nearby and he actually teaches.marketing and and the fellows in his.fifties now he was you know he has that.maturity and he understands what.teaching is about and he wants to teach.his real reason when I asked him why do.you want to become an instructor and his.answer and I loved it I want to become a.better pilot.you know and I am seeing some older.folks who want to come into instructing.but their problem is so often that.they're already an established.professional of some kind and they have.assets and they're worried about their.assets because they could kiss their.assets goodbye but I'm serious you know.there are some folks that that are not.young kids and know how to communicate.know what's important how to teach know.how strangers and set standards yes but.with these young kids who are just.looking to race through it and you're.using products like sorry Shepherd Air.Products like Shepherd air and just had.come in with rote knowledge.and my question is how do we fight that.and that's really something that saves.trying to do and our whole we don't see.here the CFI proficiency project that.we're going to launch in the fall the.FBA and it's exactly for those reasons I.think that that's why I'm supported safe.you know for someone because I think the.you know the instructor is a foundation.of all aviation community.as we've talked about we see all sorts.of weather issues or the flight.instructor capabilities and skills and.motivations and all that and just just.improving the level of professionalism.in these in the flight instructor.communities or something.and I think kind of summation to what.both of you are saying is the guy that's.trying to get by with the bare minimum.what can I do to squeak by and get this.rating and I don't have much tolerance.for that just we can't allow that kind.of person to go out there and start.involving violence.right you know I monitor a couple of.these forums and you see that mentality.all the time on these CFI forums not in.general pilot but just specifically for.CMI and they're always looking for.shortcuts what's the easy way of doing.what's the fast way of doing this you.know we're the only country where any.one of us could issue an applicant a CFI.rating and they can go out the next day.and teach someone and sign their.recommendation for a practice you can't.do that in Canada you can't do that in.England you can't do that in Australia.you can't do that in France but try to.tell the FAA to make a regulatory change.what's there what do you see I see you.brought problems where we certainly have.to cover endorsements and I'd like to.think that a CFI applicant is going to.be able to rattle right off because it's.really showing they have a sense of.their syllabus what are the endorsements.you'll have to give a private pilot and.I'm always asked well can i refer to 61.65 hotel.as what you could if you wanted the.proper variance I do but don't you know.the endorsements that you're going to.have to give in the process from I want.to be a pilot too you're ready to take.your practical test am I wrong to think.that they really should know these they.should know that they should know the.general requirements by a lot of times.people would pull out the advisory.circular with all the endorsements but.one thing I caution in mind is that a.lot of those endorsements may not be up.to date because the advisory circular.isn't updated and I always tell them.when you're signing something off go.back to that 61 whatever it has read and.read whisper beaches and make sure that.depending on what the what it is you're.signing off that you make sure the.wording is there and then just like a 90.day solo endorsement you know it says.certain things you know two weeks ago so.I think he's okay.let me add a point here that I think is.very appropriate safe has an app and.it's available to anybody they don't.have to be a member.61 65 H or whatever the current one is.is in that app I had that on my cell.phone I have it.as the correct wording and it also has a.hot link to the applicable federal.aviation regulation that applies to that.endorsement so if you need to go deeper.as bill said and very rightly you should.go deeper it's all at your fingertips.and that's one of the services that sake.provides to basic they can apply to.instructors but it's available to.anybody.excellent point thanks for bringing that.up I noticed and this is something that.happened to me recently and it's.something so I covered with the CFI.applicant in recommending somewhat or.practical tips and I kind of covered.that a little bit in depth because I had.a commercial applicant come and fail and.fail miserably and I spoke with his.recommending instructor and the.instructor said well I tried to tell him.he wasn't ready but he told me he was.sure he was so I signed him off because.I knew he would not pass and I'm.thinking to myself and in fact I.discussed this with Jeff Edwards Jeff.calls me all the time when he has to.moan about problems that we have in.aviation and Jeff said technically if I.wanted to press charges against that.instructor I could press him for.if you sign a recommendation saying this.applicant is ready to take the practical.test and they're not and you know it and.you're signing it only because you'll.let the examiner say they're not ready.they have no business being a place I.think some flight schools are maybe.working under a guaranteed program de.Bracy or something along those lines.where they you know somebody's anxious.to move on and the.or whatever it is or they're only going.to be there for two weeks and they got.to finish things up I've had very.frustrating as you both know but.we'll have the same attitude and I'll.say well I've tried it let's see if.you're having a good day.don't sign you off for a check right go.take the check right then there was work.let's try to see if they can pass I mean.how many times have I heard that we.become a bad guys because what we just.told him but he already knew well I.think there's a there's another real.basic problem in the flight instructor.community is they really have they.trained them against the standards and.are they ready or are we going to try.this and see if they get by the examiner.there again is that minimum well I were.just talking about earlier unfortunately.it's too much of that out there more.than we should we should not be seen no.we are it's interesting and I just had.this thought actually look at serums.okay and you look at the training that.they give anyone who buys an airplane.now that's the mission started so you.know this training is completely.standardized this is the way it shall.better start and look what it has done.to the accident.it's brought way way way way down below.the national kisser.probably one of the safer places to find.out because of standardized training.right and yet we do not have that within.the industry within the FAA hates a.cirrus is now doing that when you buy a.used aircraft they know if they're.embark program exactly and they will.give you three full days of paid tree.toward the transition training and.there's a basic transition for DMR.advanced transition for our fire rated.speakers can't another pilot students.but but the instructors can't be well.yeah I'll do it my way.yeah that's what seriousness but I'll do.my way know if you want to get paid you.after this is the standard no that's.what I do and you don't like it there's.the door you're dealing with a freelance.part 61 instructor the only standard he.has.is what he has to meet when he comes to.one of us to take a check right there's.no standardization along rail exactly.last last standardization review before.you lose the last turn and you know if.you all three of us have done this for.quite a few years you typically will.recognize that God walking through the.door.or do you know the instructor you know.well here's gonna be a day.unfortunately it's it's easy to.recognize I guess I have I have.instructors and I just welcome to check.ride school and know their guys I had a.flight instructor can if there's two.knowledge test and I noticed he had a.hundred on both tests one was his second.try and I said what happened he said I.got a 98 the first time and I took it.again to get a hundred now there's.there's somebody that cares there are.some of its quality he's being driven by.a top-notch instructor he's got.standards of in set boy he's following.up and you know those are the kind of.guys we like to tell I enjoyed that test.and it was a nation CF I enjoyed every.minute I took all day.do you think 1:41 school and.standardization.sure but they should not necessarily and.I all tell any stories now especially.because it could get out there and I.don't want to embarrass any schools but.but it's better than just the you know.the guy that does occasional instructing.under part 61.or what we'll call the shade tree.constructor 141 and they have a training.course outline that's been approved by.the FAA and they should be following.that it's less than one you do this.lesson to you all know what it is and if.they're following that it should be.standardized down some instructors.knowledge so that's why anything in mind.we have people that worked within the.boundaries and people don't and.unfortunately tonight and I know they're.good schools and bad schools but there's.some 141 schools with examining.authority and then someone will come to.me after a couple of ratings through.that school because that school doesn't.have examining Authority for the.commercial.really really I've seen the same funny.so yeah there is the standard I will say.and and it's kind of patent safe on the.back back in 2011 our pilot training.reform symposium was first efforts.within industry and safe was the leader.of this to try to amend the standards by.which every PI industry but it was.called the pilot training reform.symposium and that was reforming the.instructors and safe is continuing this.now with this CFIB proficiency mentoring.program.resource if you're dealing in a.and the situation where you have a 141.school the chief instructor a lot of.times the chief instructor will take a.dual instructor on the wing and kind of.help them get.didn't know.details of day-to-day.but I think the safes mentoring.hi fellow who's working as a herd 61.instructor and every once in a while.here did Nicole and asked about.[Music].I remember when we started the program.and you are one of the first mentors to.sign up but our mentees knocking at your.door know you might have one or two that.are really great that was safe first.program and it was in reaction to our.members that was their request format.and I have referred some brand-new.instructors to that and they really.appreciate it almost all of the senior.instructors have run into the situation.they've run into what do I do and he.said well I had it and here's what.happened here's my suggestion.that's an excellent program you know it.probably better than I did.you've got more experiences I think of.an instructor takes their job seriously.and brings some integrity to it we.wouldn't have the problems and it's okay.if you want to teach to get 1500 hours.that's okay that's kind of the pipeline.the way it's been forever and a day but.while you're doing it bring integrity to.it and do your best.well that's a big thing rather than the.shortcuts the integrity and just doing.it well I think any professional pilot.should should do fundamental flight.instruction time because you've learned.so much when you get to the level of.understanding that you can teach and.that is that's a level of understanding.that will stick with them to address in.a blanket even if they're going to go.fly with the airline or whatever those.fundamentals that they for a couple of.years.we're going to be very important to the.other.- my opinion is everyone should be.required to do that but you know that.it's not going to happen but another.thing is when when a instructor gets it.as an initial certificate you know.perhaps there should be a program that.requires them to you know to work under.the guidance of this is what they do in.Canada in England Australia much of.Europe I think would be great if the.agency actually mandated this but I.don't think the economics good goal is.if we're gonna see we could get that out.there and get somebody started listening.to it okay and that's what people like.the three of us are here to do.[Music].[Music].[Music].you.

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How long is a Part 107 license good for?

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How long is my drone license good for?

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